If we vote for Brexit what happens

cogito

Moby wrote: »

Brexiteers are in denial. They seriously think we can have a Brexit without a trade deal and that will not affect the living standards of millions of people in the UK. How can they be so naive or perhaps they dont care? Their hatred of the EU has eclipsed rational consideration of the future of this country. Someone says 'poor Moby stuck in a country they hate'. I dont hate my country I fear for its future and I hate the uncertain times we are in. It is clear the 27 are unified, France will elect Macron and there will be no EU meltdown. The Brexiteer fantasy of the end of the corrupt edifice is not going to be realised. The Germans and a re-energised Macron will see to that. Junkers has drawn the line in the sand. The EU will play dirty. There will be no secrecy in the coming negotiations. May wants a free hand and secrecy, (a blank cheque). Thats how she operates. Thats how she ran the Home Office. She is thin skinned and makes enemies and likes to be in control of the agenda. That is not going to happen no matter how big her election victory is! The negotiations will be leaked time and time again. No way will we be given a favourable trade deal by leaving the Single Market. We will pay big time and that will mean costs of imports will rise again and again. Future Trade deals will only be gained by undercutting the eu and that can only be done by driving down costs affecting the terms and conditions of millions of people.Do working people in this country seriously want to give the likes of Theresa May control over their future prospects. What evidence is there that she cares about working people. Look at education, look at the NHS. See the state public services are in and the answer is clear.

If we need a trade deal, please explain why we successfully manage to trade with over 100 countries without any deals in place.

And isn't playing dirty by the EU shockingly bad faith from an organisation which claims to want to negotiate in a friendly manner? It's started already of course when Juncker leaked details of his meeting with May the minute it was over.

gfplux

The Guardian once again highlighting a problem that not worth bothering with!
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/02/britains-energy-supply-is-in-jeopardy-after-brexit-warn-mps?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

The cross-party group of MPs said it shared the nuclear industry’s concern that it would take more than two years to hammer out a new deal for regulating nuclear power stations and trade. It urged the government to delay exit from the European Atomic Energy Community (Euratom) or set up transitional arrangements, which may need to be longer than the three years proposed by the European parliament.

The FT have the same mischievous story but behind a pay wall.

Soft Brexit, hard Brexit, no Britain is heading for a DIRTY Brexit.

Enterprise_1701C

I think the fact is that none of us truly know what went on in the meeting.

For all we know Tusk might have got down on his knees and pleaded with May to stop the process.

We are leaving, I think they are still having problems believing that.

The eu seem to be putting every obstacle in the way that they can at the start of negotiations. They know we cannot agree to everything on the table, and we know that things change during negotiations. The only problem being that the last chance that the eu had to negotiate with us they blew it.

As for the rights of eu and UK citizens, May tried to get that sorted before she even pushed the button, the eu were having nothing of it.

A lot of the eu's demands are utterly unworkable and they will have to move on them, we cannot have the ecj dictating to us how to treat "their" citizens just as we cannot have spain dictating to us how we should treat Gibraltar. If the eu do not realise this then they are proving that they are more stupid than anyone ever realised.

They are upset because they have had their nose bloodied by the fact that a country does not want to blend into the background, and the so-called divorce bill proves this. Don't forget their quest for "ever closer unity" meaning they want the eu to become a single country in it's own right with the same tax rules, one army, one currency and one border.

Of course there will be "leaks" on their side, they want everyone to look unkindly on us, we just have to hold our nose for a couple of years and ignore the press, if they keep insisting on their "red lines" then we will have to come out without a trade deal and go onto WTO. A lot of the things imported through the eu will be cheaper that way anyway, they put massive duties on things imported from the third world and china etc.

gfplux

"Brussels Gossip" has crossed the pond.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2017/04/30/the-uk-government-is-completely-deluded-about-brexit/#1ce654f34f04

The UK’s eventual exit from the EU is looking more and more likely to be a train wreck. The Brexiteers in Prime Minister Theresa May’s administration are living in a fantasy world. And although May herself comes across as sensible and pragmatic, it now appears that she is as deluded as they are.

I should point out that one poster here has claimed the journalist writing this story is anti Brexit and anti May.
Despite this a large number of Americans continue to regard Forbes as a source of intelligent information.

mrginge

Moby wrote: »

Do working people in this country seriously want to give the likes of Theresa May control over their future prospects. What evidence is there that she cares about working people. Look at education, look at the NHS. See the state public services are in and the answer is clear.

Whats the answer then Moby?

Instead of just being a serial complainer about what's wrong, why don't you tell us what your solution is?

kabayiri

It must seem quite novel to people like Juncker and Tusk, this concept of politicians listening to and trying to implement the demands of their electorate.

Why don't the mighty EU duo just bypass the diplomacy layer and broadcast direct on UK tv to tell the UK people just why they are wrong about their concerns. (just as the Greeks were wrong on worrying about draconian measures etc etc)

gfplux

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

I think the fact is that none of us truly know what went on in the meeting.

For all we know Tusk might have got down on his knees and pleaded with May to stop the process.

We are leaving, I think they are still having problems believing that.

The eu seem to be putting every obstacle in the way that they can at the start of negotiations. They know we cannot agree to everything on the table, and we know that things change during negotiations. The only problem being that the last chance that the eu had to negotiate with us they blew it.

As for the rights of eu and UK citizens, May tried to get that sorted before she even pushed the button, the eu were having nothing of it.

A lot of the eu's demands are utterly unworkable and they will have to move on them, we cannot have the ecj dictating to us how to treat "their" citizens just as we cannot have spain dictating to us how we should treat Gibraltar. If the eu do not realise this then they are proving that they are more stupid than anyone ever realised.

They are upset because they have had their nose bloodied by the fact that a country does not want to blend into the background, and the so-called divorce bill proves this. Don't forget their quest for "ever closer unity" meaning they want the eu to become a single country in it's own right with the same tax rules, one army, one currency and one border.

Of course there will be "leaks" on their side, they want everyone to look unkindly on us, we just have to hold our nose for a couple of years and ignore the press, if they keep insisting on their "red lines" then we will have to come out without a trade deal and go onto WTO. A lot of the things imported through the eu will be cheaper that way anyway, they put
massive duties on things imported from the third world and china etc.

If as you are suggesting nobody knows what happened at the meeting why then go on to say the EU are putting obstacles in the way.
We either don't know or we could take the leak as close to the truth.
Then both side of the argument can pick what they want to believe.

I am looking for transparency and I don't like this part of the leak.
"May wanted to work through the Brexit talks in monthly, 4-day blocks; all confidential until the end of the process. Commission said impossible to reconcile this with need to square off member states & European Parliament, so documents must be published."

Why would May want to keep the negotiations a secret from the British (and the 27 other members states') people until it's fait accompli?
I look forward to the talks beginning and complete openness. Wether from a daily press briefing or from leaks. Haven't we had our fill of secret meanings.

gfplux

kabayiri wrote: »

It must seem quite novel to people like Juncker and Tusk, this concept of politicians listening to and trying to implement the demands of their electorate.

Why don't the mighty EU duo just bypass the diplomacy layer and broadcast direct on UK tv to tell the UK people just why they are wrong about their concerns. (just as the Greeks were wrong on worrying about draconian measures etc etc)

Hopefully when the talks start we will have press briefings in Brussels that the British media will report.
If not don't worry there will be plenty of leaks.....from both sides.

WengerIn

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

I think the fact is that none of us truly know what went on in the meeting.

For all we know Tusk might have got down on his knees and pleaded with May to stop the process.

We are leaving, I think they are still having problems believing that.

The eu seem to be putting every obstacle in the way that they can at the start of negotiations. They know we cannot agree to everything on the table, and we know that things change during negotiations. The only problem being that the last chance that the eu had to negotiate with us they blew it.

As for the rights of eu and UK citizens, May tried to get that sorted before she even pushed the button, the eu were having nothing of it.

A lot of the eu's demands are utterly unworkable and they will have to move on them, we cannot have the ecj dictating to us how to treat "their" citizens just as we cannot have spain dictating to us how we should treat Gibraltar. If the eu do not realise this then they are proving that they are more stupid than anyone ever realised.

They are upset because they have had their nose bloodied by the fact that a country does not want to blend into the background, and the so-called divorce bill proves this. Don't forget their quest for "ever closer unity" meaning they want the eu to become a single country in it's own right with the same tax rules, one army, one currency and one border.

Of course there will be "leaks" on their side, they want everyone to look unkindly on us, we just have to hold our nose for a couple of years and ignore the press, if they keep insisting on their "red lines" then we will have to come out without a trade deal and go onto WTO. A lot of the things imported through the eu will be cheaper that way anyway, they put massive duties on things imported from the third world and china etc.

The EU can demand what they like just as the UK can but that doesn't mean either side will get it.

I remain of the opinion that the UK will leave the EU with either basically no agreement or actually no agreement in place.

If you go onto WTO rules all those things that cross borders more than once will get a lot more expensive. You tout it like it's a reasonable fall back position but there are a lot of companies that import stuff to the UK from the EU and then re-export it back in some sort of value added form, for example car manufacturers, and vice versa. WTO rules are a complete nightmare if that's your business model and for many companies it is.

gfplux

In other news.
http://delano.lu/d/detail/news/brexit-12-companies-relocate-lux/143870

Nicolas Mackel, the head of Luxembourg for Finance, has said that so far, a dozen companies have confirmed to him that they will relocate to the grand duchy in the wake of Brexit.
In an interview with public radio 100,7 on Friday 28 April, Mackel confirmed only the names of companies who have made their decision to come to Luxembourg public:


Please try to refrain from personal attacks on me or Luxembourg. It does not strengthen your argument. (Don't blame the messenger)