If we vote for Brexit what happens

prosaver

why is it that The EU thinks it about having your cake, is it a french thing.
anyway I think the cake is on the other foot, so to say,
if we dont have a trade deal nor does the EU and they export(right word?) more to us,
Its like there pretending they aren't bother if THEY dont have a trade deal.

I say they cant have THEIR cake...
so no cakes for anyone..ha ha

kabayiri

Filo25 wrote: »

I would imagine their long term gameplan is to get the best possible deal for the EU.

Maybe they don't think the UK's bargaining position is as strong as many on here do so will take an opening position of trying to impose terms, it doesn't mean that will be the final position reached but I would suggest it was naive of anyone to think they would do anything but come out and talk tough in the opening salvos.

Interestingly, this strong EU stance (which I understand btw) can easily be used by May to achieve a big majority in these elections.

So in a way their proclamations are strengthening the single voice they have to deal with!

Politics.It's a funny old game.

kabayiri

Filo25 wrote: »

...
Like I said, in other European countries there isn't the "let's punish them Brit" feeling that there is made out to be in the British media and, as a result, on this site.
...

That attitude is a political tool, make no mistake. May absolutely needs to mop up the disaffected voters enticed by UKIP. She knows that she has right leaning members in her party.

Creating a defensive mentality works in her favour.

She is in election mode now, and politics is a dirty business. It's got little to do with the reality of things in EU-land.

...I'd never play poker with the woman!

Tromking

Quasar wrote: »

Speaking as a continental EU citizen, I have to say the positions taken by many leavers (not all, ok?) are quite laughable. If more of them were able to read foreign sites, say French or German or Italian or Spanish, they would see that the various EU governments are NOT in the least regretting doing or not doing things when Cameron was begging for concessions, or baying for British economic decline or whatever other horror the tabloids are persuading the Brits to dread.

The EU is unanimous on how to proceed and all the talk of "punishing" Britain is the sort of daft waffle that has no place in serious negotiations. Shame that the British media do little to inform the public they purport to serve, and go instead for the them bad we good rhetoric.

As I said, it is laughable, and I'm only glad that the negotiating teams are made up by people who discuss issues with a level head, rather than with angry stances, because it is in BOTH sides' interests to reach an amicable, mutually convenient separation.

I don't know if you've been in the UK long enough to understand the British psyche, but Brexit is just the latest in our long history of dissention from the percieved wisdom of mainland Europe, Catholicism and Fascism being two prime examples. In some respects we have merely reverted to type, Brits are not good Europeans.
If by regret you mean that European Governments are losing a considerable amount of sleep that the UK is leaving, then you'd be right, you would concede however that in some small way that Brexit is partly an EU failure and could have been avoided, or perhaps you wouldn't.:)
There is a deal there if both sides are sensibly pragmatic, but lets not perpetuate the myth that the EU and its constituent nations will be all sweetness and light and are not capable of "angry stances". Mainland European politicians are just as susceptible as those in the UK to dog whistle politics, again you weaken your argument by suggesting otherwise.
I`m expecting my Government to challenge the EU`s declared unanimity and create division where it can, purely to suit the UK' s national interest. On the flipside I`m also expecting them to act pragmatically and make rerasonable concessions also.

Quasar

Tromking wrote: »

I don't know if you've been in the UK long enough to understand the British psyche, but Brexit is just the latest in our long history of dissention from the percieved wisdom of mainland Europe, Catholicism and Fascism being two prime examples. In some respects we have merely reverted to type, Brits are not good Europeans.
If by regret you mean that European Governments are losing a considerable amount of sleep that the UK is leaving, then you'd be right, you would concede however that in some small way that Brexit is partly an EU failure and could have been avoided, or perhaps you wouldn't.:)
There is a deal there if both sides are sensibly pragmatic, but lets not perpetuate the myth that the EU and its constituent nations will be all sweetness and light and are not capable of "angry stances". Mainland European politicians are just as susceptible as those in the UK to dog whistle politics, again you weaken your argument by suggesting otherwise.
I`m expecting my Government to challenge the EU`s declared unanimity and create division where it can, purely to suit the UK' s national interest. On the flipside I`m also expecting them to act pragmatically and make rerasonable concessions also.

I'm more British than the other now, after more than 30 years here and having only British friends and associates. I do understand the British psyche, I assure you.

That is no reason for me to avoid pointing out that this country is being poorly served by a misinforming, agenda ridden media system, the tabloids being by far the most read papers and those that really form grassroot opinion.

Maybe you are right, the British are not good Europeans, who knows. Now the decision has been made and negotiations have to be faced.

My entire argument is NOT that the EU is better or that the UK is better, or that the two should stay together. My entire argument is that the British public, by far, is being led to a string of absurd reasons and fears because, well, since it has never been happy being in the EU, it has never really cared about what kind of information it has been fed.

That said, I want all to go well for the UK, and I hope its negotiators understand that the EU is not out to "punish" the UK. An utterly ridiculous idea, but one that is apparently held dear by so many.

EDIT I hope you are watching the Brexit briefing by the EU right now on BBC News 24.

Tromking

Quasar wrote: »

That said, I want all to go well for the UK, and I hope its negotiators understand that the EU is not out to "punish" the UK. An utterly ridiculous idea, but one that is apparently held dear by so many.

EDIT I hope you are watching the Brexit briefing by the EU right now on BBC News 24.

No, I'm at work unfortunately.
I'm expecting the EU to be unduly punitive, they wouldn't be serving the EU as a viable ongoing contsruct if they didn't. Why do you think that part of the negotiations are not going to be driven by the need to dissuade other nations from leaving the EU?

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Without wishing to appear jingoistic, it is my solid belief that the British are in fact better Europeans than most within the European continent give us credit for.
Hence our contributions to two world wars - unless anyone really needs reminding why Great Britain was involved in these?

Since our membership of the EU, we have been widely recognized as being a liberalising influence - it was Thatcher after all who pushed so hard for the single market.
This in direct opposition to the increasing federalism of Germany and France which lead to the Euro and ever-increasing integration in other areas - law; immigration etc. for example.

It is this federalism which so many British are unhappy with; this sense of achieving via the back door that which could not be achieved by conflict.
This sense, whether right or wrong, is not eased at all by the attitudes displayed by senior eurocrats as I posted earlier.
There are threats - not even veiled threats; an open and frank threat of a huge "divorce bill" being just one example amongst many.

There can then be little wonder that British media - who have, may I remind you generally had such a pro-EU bias - recognizing the effect this has on the public (and of course the effect of increasing revenue) would seek to make the most of this.

Again I remind you that the UK are not alone in having this sense regarding the institution that the EU has become.
Which is why, as I say earlier, there is a very large proportion of Europeans who are - to one degree or another - becoming increasingly anti-EU themselves.

Treating the UK unfairly and/or harshly will undoubtedly have the effect of increasing anti-EU sentiment across the bloc.
In other words, IMHO if the EU do not moderate their stance and be seen to actively seek compromise they will in effect be shooting themselves in the foot.
I think May knows this.

Thrugelmir

Quasar wrote: »

Like I said, in other European countries there isn't the "let's punish them Brit" feeling that there is made out to be in the British media and, as a result, on this site.

The media publishes what people say. Perhaps they would do better to simply shut up and do the their job in a statesman like manner. Adding fuel to the fire one day comes back to haunt everyone.

CKhalvashi

It has though affected property market for house sellers.

You may want to remove the photo and any other branding from your profile before someone reports it for you.

I'm not allowed to advertise here, neither are you

Quasar

Tromking wrote: »

No, I'm at work unfortunately.
I'm expecting the EU to be unduly punitive, they wouldn't be serving the EU as a viable ongoing contsruct if they didn't. Why do you think that part of the negotiations are not going to be driven by the need to dissuade other nations from leaving the EU?

Excuse me. If you get out of a paying club, you don't expect to retain access to its facilities just the same. Other nations do not need to see the UK being "punished". They understand that if they are in the club they have certain benefits, if they are out they do not. It is up to them to decide if these benefits are worth staying.

There is NO punushment involved as such on the part of the EU. The fact is that being a member carries certain advantages that are not available when getting out.

Some may argue that such advantages are paltry in the first place, however you certainly cannot expect Brexit to carry no loss of EU advantages (whatever they may be). It is NOT punishment. It is the getting out of agreements and bearing the consequences thereof.