If we vote for Brexit what happens

Tromking

davomcdave wrote: »

I hope you are right.

Out of interest, what do you think the biggest changes will be apart from immigration?

I know the much fabled idea of a return of sovereignty winds your average Remain voter up, but despite it being currently hard to quantify, in my opinion when we finally leave the ability to make changes and maybe even improvements without reference to 27 other nations has the potential to transform our politics and more importantly how we view our elected representatives. For too long MP`s have had a handy firewall known as the EU to blame for various issues that have bothered the UK electorate. Any removal of a layer of law making elected reps is a welcome change in my view.
Brexit will inevitably effect immigration as it will return to the UK the ability for us withdraw in-work benefits from new workers from the EU.

davomcdave

Conrad wrote: »

All my adult life people have said this and imply that things would be better if their kind were in charge but it's just not reality to think this way IMO.


I think overall we have a pretty honest and straight forwards lot compared to most in the world.


People confuse dishonesty with viewpoint. For example it is a valid view to suggest we can determine how the gross EU contribution is spent by ourselves, and however you cut the numbers, it's a ruddy big figure. It's just not the case the bus figure was a lie, it was an implied suggestion and no one took the number as red.

Rubbish.

The number on the bus was a lie and the people that paid for it to be painted on the bus knew full well it was a lie.

People on the other side lied too, you just prefer your lies to theirs.

Herzlos

mrginge wrote: »

The leave voters who were conned into voting for their self interest.

Indeed everyone voted in self interest, that's usually how it works. But the query is how much of that self interest was based on total lies.

Tromking

davomcdave wrote: »

Rubbish.

The number on the bus was a lie and the people that paid for it to be painted on the bus knew full well it was a lie.

People on the other side lied too, you just prefer your lies to theirs.

If I recall correctly the claim on the 'bus' was challenged almost immediately (erroneously in my view) as a lie. The £350m claim was blatent politcking designed to appeal to a long held British viewpoint that our money should not go to Brussels and should be spent at home.Politics is partly about appealing to our basest instincts.
Nothing intrinsically wrong with that.

Herzlos

How do you figure that it's not a lie?

melanzana

The reality is we won't know how anything worked out until we are gone from the EU.

What we have now is a bit of a hiatus whilst we recover from the triggering of A50.

But time is money, and we have only got two years!

My personal view is that there will be a deal. But it will not be as smooth a trading condition (within EU) as we have now. Cannot be.

I reckon there is no other country that would even contemplate leaving the EU now, until they see what happens WRT UK.

So we are the experiment. Should be interesting. But maybe it will not lead to everything sought from Brexit either.

I see Single Market access allowed in return for freedom of movement. Heck even Norway, Iceland and Switzerland accept that, and none of them have full membership of the EU. Norway and Iceland AFAIK are members of the customs union (no tariffs within EU), whereas Switzerland is not a member of either EU or customs union, but in order to trade freely within the EU has agreed to free movement of people.

I think the UK needs to look at the reality here quite frankly.

Anyway. It won't be long until we see what happens.

mrginge

Herzlos wrote: »

Indeed everyone voted in self interest, that's usually how it works. But the query is how much of that self interest was based on total lies.

No that's your made up query because you are in denial that your beliefs aren't shared by a greater number of people.
So the only thing you have is to make out that it's a flawed victory for the leavers, it just has to be. The game was rigged, the ref was biased, they cheated.
Classic sore loser.

We can all see through it. It's a fairly standard response tbh.

Actually though, no-one else could really give a stuff anymore matey. We're all just getting on with life instead.

Thrugelmir

Herzlos wrote: »

I wouldn't go that far. But you have to admit the caliber of politics and, well, honesty, has been pretty disappointing so far?

Brown and Blair set the bar in 1997. Spin, deceit and lies. Net result is that many people are only interested in themselves not others. Don't like something. Complain endlessly or take legal action (using crowdfunding) . Wasting huge sums of resource, money and time. There's no respect for anything.

Life goes in cycles. Perhaps we are heading to the next one. As people are waking up to reality. Rather than sleepwalking into a nightmare.

BobQ

vivatifosi wrote: »

I really dislike the thick and gullible labels. Over 50% of the population is of average intelligence, hence it being average. Only a relatively small number have cognitive impairment. Those who have severe cognitive impairment will often not register to vote:
https://blogs.canterbury.ac.uk/discursive/cognitive-impairment-and-voting-the-capacity-to-be-heard/

Labelling people in a disparaging manner is just not helpful.

I think you are being over sensitive on this matter.

Since you raise the matter, 'thick', as commonly used, is the converse of clever and relates to IQ.

Cognitive impairment is a disability affecting someone's difficulty communicating, remembering, concentrating and making decisions about everyday life, it is not a measure of IQ. In fact people of any IQ can suffer cognitive impairment.

Being gullible is also nothing to do with intelligence I know people who are above average intelligence but believe what they are told. Such as those who believe what politicians say (eg that the NHS would benefit from Brexit).

Thrugelmir

Herzlos wrote: »

How do you figure that it's not a lie?

The UK is a sizable net contributor to the bureaucracy of the EU. In times of severe austerity. Perhaps some people believe that money should be spent elsewhere. Rather than see it wasted on pointless projects and mis-spent. Roads being a prime example.