If we vote for Brexit what happens

CKhalvashi

Tromking wrote: »

No personal attack was intended, just proffering the idea that we are all a product of our personal and family history.
You are failing to understand the nuanced difference between being required to produce a form of ID that you may or may not possess and everyone being required by law to be in possession of an ID card designed solely to prove your status as a citizen to officialdom.
Brexit if anything was an example that Brits often do not think as mainland Europeans do.

Ok, I'll accept the first part, however I've lived in the UK for about 70% of my life, and many that know me in person will tell you that I'm culturally more British than anything else.

Noone is suggesting that it's essential an ID card is carried at all times (I'm definitely not), but I am suggesting for international travel it's a good idea to be uniform. I choose to carry a DL with me at all times, largely so I know where it is. I also carry an EHIC card and bank cards with me at all times, all of which bear my name.

It also allows the government to keep a better track of everyone living in the UK, as an EU license can be used until age 70 in the UK at this time. I don't see that as a bad thing overall (there are downsides, but are outweighed IMO by the benefits), and would solve the situation perfectly when it comes to permanent residency rights, leaving noone in limbo, as is the situation we're seeing now. I can go to the EU, gain a 5 year ID card and then permanent residency (which I assume will be honoured after Brexit), so this should in all fairness go both ways.

For Jock: I am not denying that other countries require ID on demand, but I am also suggesting in the UK that it's not necessary. Russia, as far as I'm aware, is not and never has been in the EU, the UK may not be in the future, but has been, and will still maintain a common travel area with an EU country.

vivatifosi wrote: »

That's a really interesting document, thanks gfplux. It's a useful read across the board, but a couple of the points that I found most interesting were:
1) that the EU's relation with Turkey is seen as a potential model for the UK's. It also refers elsewhere to different potential models such as EEA, EFTA, Customs Union.
2) it sees two stages - the withdrawal rules and the post exit rules.
3) TiSA and the UK's role in it is seen as significant. It sees the UK as having negotiating skill in this area and wanting to stay party to the talks. TiSA is the WTO's agreement on the trade in services.
4) Leading on from this, it talks about the UK's technical capacity and expertise on controlled items (eg missiles) and ability to indirectly influence the EU in this area after leaving.
5) I was interested to note the importance of agriculture to the EU's WTO relationships, and wondered how the UK pulling out of the CAP will affect the EU, as well as vice versa.

(This is my take on this from reading the document as a layperson. Please don't rely on the above and read it yourself if you are interested.)

Thanks Viva for the rundown, I have emailed myself a copy to read when I'm not tired and have time, which will probably be Tuesday/Wednesday.

Sounds interesting though.

BobQ

gfplux wrote: »

From Politico daily Brexit briefing.

"The European Parliament’s trade committee has compiled the most comprehensive official analysis of Brexit’s impact on pending EU trade deals and new regulations so far. POLITICO got its hands on a copy"

It links to a 16 page document that those who post a lot about trade might wish to read. I skimmed it.

Here is the link http://www.politico.eu/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/INTA.pdf?utm_source=POLITICO.EU&utm_campaign=4acf57ef40-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_02_24&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_10959edeb5-4acf57ef40-190026745

My impression from this is that the EU are now drawing a distinction between potential trade agrements and the other aspects. Does this imply that we might be able to negotiate a trade agreement without contributing to the EU budget as has been suggested.

mayonnaise

More brexit related good news.

Hi-tech financial firms flee UK amid doubts over Brexit

“I don’t know of a licensed fintech company in the UK that isn’t looking at options,” he said. “Everyone is thinking about it and anyone that is any size, that is employing more than 10 people, is active. The exodus is beginning. It will be more visible in 2018.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/25/brexit-fintech-exodus-begins-london-eu-luxembourg

vivatifosi

BobQ wrote: »

My impression from this is that the EU are now drawing a distinction between potential trade agrements and the other aspects. Does this imply that we might be able to negotiate a trade agreement without contributing to the EU budget as has been suggested.

I'd be wary of drawing that conclusion. What the paper gives is a series of answers to specific questions about trade. What we don't know is whether papers have been drafted on non trade aspects of our relationship with the EU. Nor do we know the balance of priorities.

We want a trading relationship going forward, but the EU priority is likely different. They want to keep the EU together. All we have here is an insight to one part (trade). There could be plenty of curved balls from other aspects of our relationship. We are only seeing one leaked document, not the full set.

Mortgagefreeman

mayonnaise wrote: »

More brexit related good news.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/25/brexit-fintech-exodus-begins-london-eu-luxembourg

David Boffey doesn't report good news about Brexit. He's the Guardians remoaner in charge.

Daniel Boffey is the Guardian's Brussels bureau chief

https://www.theguardian.com/profile/daniel-boffey

A_Medium_Size_Jock

mayonnaise wrote: »

More brexit related good news.

Besides being from the Graudian's chief remain protagonist do read it, noting phraseology such as: "the chief executive of a leading firm has said" and "it is claimed".
All pie-in-the-sky stuff then.
WHEN a move is formally announced and actually takes place it will become news; until then it is closer to propaganda.
No, the good news follows regarding Eurozone growth and makes for very interesting reading:

Economists, however, also see a growth killer in the bloc's politics.Many have long argued that the euro zone cannot compete as a leading economy without substantial structural reform - particularly in the number two and three economies after Germany.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eurozone-economy-recovery-idUKKBN165084

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Are Poland and the EU heading towards a standoff?
On Monday Poland dismissed EU demands to reform Polish judiciary.

"(Timmermans's call) on other member states to create a common front with the European Commission against Poland are a glaring example of violation of these rules," the ministry said.
Warsaw said a dialogue between the Commission and a member country should be based on rules of respect for sovereignty, objectivity and national identity. "We urge the Vice-President of the European Commission to stop such actions," the ministry said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-poland-eu-court-idUSKBN15Z21Q?il=0

Now today, Jean Asselborn (Luxembourg politician & Minister of Foreign Affairs) says in a report by Deutsche Welle:

that EU countries "need to oppose" violation of fundamental values ​​in Poland

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=pl&u=http://www.dw.com/pl/asselborn-w%25C4%2585tpi-w-dojrza%25C5%2582o%25C5%259B%25C4%2587-polski-do-ue/a-37717735&prev=search
(Translated version)

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Are French farmers supporting Le Pen?

France remains the biggest beneficiary of EU farm aid, but more than a third of French farmers earned less than €4,200 (£3,560) last year, squeezed by falling food prices and cheaper imports from other member states.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/25/french-farmers-hope-marine-le-pen-will-free-eu-straitjacket/

A_Medium_Size_Jock

There have been various posts in these threads in the past about the abuse of immigrants here in the UK.
This piece from the BBC today shows the level of problems in Germany regarding such attacks on migrants there:

Nearly 10 attacks were made on migrants in Germany every day in 2016, the interior ministry says.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39096833

gfplux

ID cards have been discussed in some recent posts.
I hesitate a little in the following post on a board that have some posters with very strong feelings and I hope I am not leaving myself open to abuse.
So here goes....
While living in the U.K. I felt proud and admired the freedom of life in Britain. The fact that excentric behaviour was not abnormal. People were free to do and behave as they wished. I imagine most will understand what I am saying. Forgive any misunderstanding.
When I first lived outside the UK in another European country I found the rules and regulations, the regimentation all very strange. The fact that an identity card was required seemed a very strange concept to me.
Years later I now find that all this structure very comforting. That my ID card is my direct link into society. That my ID card has only been asked for by my Bank, my Doctor, the Chemist, the Hospital, the local tip, the Council office, the phone company, the gas supplier, the electricity supplier, the car dealer for a test drive etc. All the places where it makes the world work more efficiently and speedily (for me)
In 30 years I have never been asked to produce my ID to a policeman.
This " structure" makes sure that (mostly) the people who properly need something, get it.
So finally the kicker!!!!
I now believe that an efficient ID system can make society better for those who live in the "light" and much more difficult for those who live in the "shadows"
Nothing is perfect, but to me an imperfect regulated society is preferable to an imperfect UN regulated society.
Perhaps after Britain has left the EU the requirement for an ID system in Britain may appeal to the Government to more efficiently detect those who should not be living in the Country.