If we vote for Brexit what happens

cogito

always_sunny wrote: »

hmm the fact that (so it seems) the plan is not to negotiate with the bloc but with member states individually.
Of course the UK traded with individual states before but things are different now. Would it be okay if the bloc was to trade with Wales but not England?

You shouldn't believe everything that Juncker says. He'll be gone soon anyway.

The_Last_Username

orwen wrote: »

There has never been time that New Zealand lamb has not be readily available in quantity in UK supermarkets. Who told you otherwise please, presumably a politician?

Are you making up your own debate?
Who said NZ lamb had not been readily available?
Certainly not me, nor anyone else I have seen in this thread.

But tell us, was this NZ lamb cheaper after we joined the EU or before?
I suggest having a read of the following before you reply.
https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/stab-back-did-us-favour-dw-134625

http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/britain-europe-and-new-zealand/page-3

Thrugelmir

orwen wrote: »

I detect bad blood caused by our referendum to leave, bad blood is antithetical to good trading relations - with anyone - it is not a good position to trade from. We need friends and good relationships, we don't appear to be moving in that direction with regard to the EU, thus it would seem to me to be an unwise move.

Don't confuse politics with business. No politician can afford the wrath of their own electorate. However wedded they maybe to the EU.

Moby

setmefree2 wrote: »

Quite the post from someone who supported the Blair government. A government that left us with a record pile of national debt and a budget deficit that we still haven't got rid of. Debt that will be hanging around our necks for generations.

This is the same Blair who took us into a bloody war in Iraq that nobody wanted (except George Bush). The consequences of which the middle east live with today.

Blair who failed to build enough houses... the ramifications of which we are living with today.

Blair who's immigration policy contributed to Brexit....

Blair who signed the Lisbon Treaty in 2005 and never gave us a referendum...

Blair who has left our public services with the legacy of PFI....

Blair who along with Brown, Darling and Mandelson have spent the last 10 years getting filthy rich whilst the rest of us have been living through a recession.....and our government has been trying to sort out the mess of RBS and Lloyds

....Blair : really??? Why in gods name would you want us to listen to him?

You cant hang the debt on the Blair govmt That issue affected the whole western world! ..... Re. The Iraq war...... There were more tory MPs who voted for it than Labour MPs as a proportion of the size of their MP numbers at the time..... Hypocrites conveniently forget that now of course with the benefit of hindsight! The moral opposition to the war was mainly on the left......so if that is where you are coming from fair enough....but it isn't is it!

Blair built more houses than the tories did in their first five years of govmt. Totally agree with his view that there shouldn't have been a referendum on the EU because you elect Govmts to make these decisions....... look at the sorry mess we are in now!! See Dispatches channel 4 last night......on average the price of basic food products is estimated to go up £300 a year per houshold because of the falling pound and brexit!

He has got rich so what......so do all your tory friends.......look at Cameron and Osborne. He had his faults......but that speech showed one thing..... Blair was so much more able than the distinctly average politicians we have now and his analysis of the referendum decision was spot on. That's why I listen to him! Oh and by the way the NHS was working a lot better by the time Blair gave it the investment previous Govmts starved it of.....same for education!

gfplux

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

It appears that the "alternative facts" as usual are yours.
A simple web search will show how you ignore the EU's effect on dairy farming although I grant that you are at least partially correct in your surmise.
Once out of the EU would UK companies still wish to or indeed be able to buy EU milk?

Any way, on to the EU's involvement:
http://www.stuartagnewmep.co.uk/images_server/stuart_agnew/documents/39_The%20EU%20impact%20on%20dariy%20farming.pdf

http://sustainablefoodtrust.org/articles/explaining-britains-dairy-crisis/

So you may gather that the REASON farmers are not being paid an economic price for their milk is because of competition following the EU ending milk quotas.
More-heavily-subsidised German milk even after import is cheaper than our own home-produced milk for example - and keeps wholesale prices down.

https://www.ft.com/content/f7ac7cac-eed4-11e5-9f20-c3a047354386

Just to add:
Can the UK introduce any protective measures for UK dairy farmers like tariffs on imported milk (or pretty much anything else, for that matter) especially from within the EU whilst members of the EU club?
Or do you think that might be against EU rules?

Thanks for updating and enlightening me about milk prices. I did not know the prices were being depressed by cheap imports from the EU.

Why you have to start your post with an unpleasant first sentence I don't know. Why would you do that?

So the UK Supermarkets buy German milk. Do the cartons in the chiller show Country of origin. It might be masked by the catch all "a product of the EU" which of course can mean British milk.

EDIT.
We don't use fresh milk but I have just checked a "brick" of UHT semi fat milk bought in Luxembourgand strangely it does not have Country of production. It only says packaged by Cactus who are the Supermarket chain the milk was bought from.

cogito

Moby wrote: »

You cant hang the debt on the Blair govmt That issue affected the whole western world! ..... Re. The Iraq war...... There were more tory MPs who voted for it than Labour MPs as a proportion of the size of their MP numbers at the time..... Hypocrites conveniently forget that now of course with the benefit of hindsight! The moral opposition to the war was mainly on the left......so if that is where you are coming from fair enough....but it isn't is it!

Blair built more houses than the tories did in their first five years of govmt. Totally agree with his view that there shouldn't have been a referendum on the EU because you elect Govmts to make these decisions....... look at the sorry mess we are in now!! See Dispatches channel 4 last night......on average the price of basic food products is estimated to go up £300 a year per houshold because of the falling pound and brexit!

He has got rich so what......so do all your tory friends.......look at Cameron and Osborne. He had his faults......but that speech showed one thing..... Blair was so much more able than the distinctly average politicians we have now and his analysis of the referendum decision was spot on. That's why I listen to him! Oh and by the way the NHS was working a lot better by the time Blair gave it the investment previous Govmts starved it of.....same for education!

You can hang the debt on the Blair government. It was his chancellor who was in favour of the light touch regulation that gave the green light to the banks to engage in the reckless behaviour that meant that they had to be rescued. Read Alastair Darling's book, Back from the Brink if you want the inside story.

You also forget that Blair promised the country a referendum on the EU when the EU constitution was negotiated. He backed off when referenda in other countries killed it. Then when it was renamed the Lisbon Treaty, he claimed that it wasn't a constitution so we didn't need a referendum.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

gfplux wrote: »

Why you have to start your post with an unpleasant first sentence I don't know. Why would you do that?

YOU are the one that originally used the "unpleasant" terminology towards another poster in an attempt to discredit.
Twice in the same post in fact.
I merely quoted what you had said and said you were wrong, then substantiated this with facts and links.
When you are incorrect (as you were) there will always be someone on these forums to correct you.

As to the rest of your post, perhaps you could do your own research?
Please note that I do not say the UK supermarkets buy German milk. (Though they may for all I know.)
If you had read the links though you would see that much of the produce from Germany is in fact milk products - which could be yoghurts; cheese; or indeed many other things.
If you lived here in the UK you would see for example that Muller is a popular brand of yoghurts.

Unternehmensgruppe Theo Müller (often called Müllermilch or simply Müller) is a multinational producer of dairy products, with a headquarters in Fischach in the German state of Bavaria. Müller has a turnover of €5 billion. Since 2013, the American singer Nicole Scherzinger has appeared in Müller adverts, it is one of the UK's best selling yogurt brands[1] and has 21,000 employees.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BCller_(company)

Do you think that all they sell in the UK is made with British milk?
Or is even made in Britain?
Again, if it interests you so please do your own research.


Oh, and try not to use ""Alternative Truth" or "Alernative Facts" again unless you are certain that their usage is appropriate and correct - and preferably backed-up with at least some supporting evidence.
Then you may help to avoid responses you don't like.

davomcdave

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Feel free to start a new thread with those questions.
Or even search these forums for previous threads which may contain the answers you seek.

No I didn't think anyone would have a good answer to that either.

If a currency like the Pound floats freely in conditions of free movement of capital then it's hard to see how it can be under- or over-valued. It's just valued.

There's an argument to be made that the Euro is undervalued for the German economy or overvalued for the Greeks but frankly unless those places get their own currencies then it's just opinion and opinions are like bottoms.....everyone has them and they generally stink.

always_sunny

cogito wrote: »

You shouldn't believe everything that Juncker says. He'll be gone soon anyway.

Not much to do with Juncker, more the fact you seem to believe that the rest of the EU is ready to gamble it all to do these great deals with the UK! Let's see what happens.

The whole EU bloc remaining member states all awaiting to free from the EU shackles as soon as Britain triggers Art 50...why wait?

A_Medium_Size_Jock

davomcdave wrote: »

No I didn't think anyone would have a good answer to that either.

Well if you will insist upon asking "how long is a bit of string" - type questions .......................

Of course if you're not simply being intentionally obtuse and your question is genuine, why have you not done as I suggested and posted a new thread with your questions?

Is it perhaps because you can already envisage that the response you may receive might not be what you expect?