If we vote for Brexit what happens

masterwilde

a common sense person could, if given the time and resources cure the NHS of its problems.

masterwilde

Thrugelmir - the Water industry has progressed significantly, invested in the employees and technology. it has been successful.

BT have been successful, they have failed when it comes to the internet, however thats the modern age, i could not see the governement being better or faster in that regard.

The NHS is not efficient i agree, however it could be. the system as a whole at present is nothing but a failure.

masterwilde

the NHS is not bad because is nationalised its bad due to bad management and stupid government.

Making it private, will make it better, and to a point more efficient but it would not benefit the people as a whole.

CKhalvashi

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Are Nationalised industries any better? Certainly weren't in the UK. Though you'll have no knowledge as well before your time.

Nor is the NHS efficient.

masterwilde wrote: »

a common sense person could, if given the time and resources cure the NHS of its problems.

I completely agree with both of you on these specific points actually.

Solving the problems would start by getting rid of half the middle management who seem to be clogging up the system.

Some of the issues are hospital specific, some aren't. It's often that I hear of similar issues appearing in multiple trusts (from people that work for the NHS) and occasionally there does seem to be something isolated.

There are huge inefficiencies within most government organisations though, and MasterWilde does make a valid point that if given the time and resources, a lot of progress could be made on this, which would obviously help the state of the country overall.

I'm not suggesting nationalise everything, nor am I suggesting that privatising everything is the right way, I'm trying to find a balance between the two and IMO the universal healthcare is something the government should keep, whilst also being sure that with no additional money it could do a lot more in the long term.

Thrugelmir

Hard choices need to be made as to what health care priorities should be. Not possible to fund every treatment out of pure cost alone. Also needs people to take better care of themselves. I'm all for better funding for healthcare. Providing it comes out of say a tax on junk food and the like. Then those who consume pay the cost. Self funding so to speak.

CKhalvashi

masterwilde wrote: »

the NHS is not bad because is nationalised its bad due to bad management and stupid government.

Making it private, will make it better, and to a point more efficient but it would not benefit the people as a whole.

So, it'd be getting a half decent management in who could get on with the job of making it more efficient, not privatisation, that would make it better and benefit the people as a whole?

You are never going to get me to agree that privatisation of the NHS is a good idea.

I also note that you've posted for the first time in a month to argue with me on this, so hi

CLAPTON

CKhalvashi wrote: »

No, but I do know that privatising something and bringing a profit-making company into it doesn't save money in the long run, no matter what your Tory mates may think.

Presumably the contracts will be dished out to the cheapest rather than the best quality, presumably as it'd end up costing more.

I also know that a lot of the time when something is run for profit on a 'cheapest wins' basis corners start to be cut and quality starts to decline if it is to save money as the government want. That's fine in some areas, however would you want someone to cut corners and give poor quality healthcare?

I definitely know I wouldn't, and the only harm is going to be to the patient in this case.

we don't have the 'best' quality now.
we often give poor quality care now.
the vast majority of businesses aren't run on the cheapest wins
most businesses don't cut corners and still stay in business.
when things are free they are always wasted and/or inefficiencely used.

Conrad

If I was paid a set amount by Govt come rain or shine it would alter my absolute resolve to provide the customer outcomes expected, often against great odds. When money is absolutely on the line it alters everything.

My Dad was a Civil Servant, the waste was astounding

masterwilde

haha hello

the nhs as a whole is a complete broken system, until that is diagnosed and scoped there can be no cure.

management are certainly accountable for alot of this, however the government also has their share of the pie.

Matt_L

coastline wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/16/theresa-may-set-12-point-plan-brexit-vows-clean-break-does-not/

Couldn't ask for more really, nice clean break...