If we vote for Brexit what happens

Conrad

Herzlos wrote: »

Very few Scots have actually dislike English people, just an English Parliament forcing decisions they don't want on them.

Whereas ever closer Union and thereby ever more power ceded to the Brussels talking shop is just grand

setmefree2

Guy Verhofstadt warns against 'eternal' interim deal
Any interim deal between the UK and the EU should not be allowed to become "eternal", according to a key figure in the negotiations.
Guy Verhofstadt, the European Parliament's chief Brexit negotiator, said any "transitional arrangement" should have a strict time limit.

Speaking on BBC Radio 4's The World at One, Mr Verhofstadt said a transitional deal was "certainly possible".
But he warned: "I have seen many times in politics that a so-called transitional agreement becomes an eternal, a definitive, agreement - that has to be avoided."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38297595

setmefree2

Labour stance
In a speech at Bloomberg in London, shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer said Labour could amend any bill giving the government authority to trigger Article 50 in order to avoid a so-called "hard Brexit" involving quitting the EU single market.

Keir said Labour wanted to see tariff-free trade for UK businesses, no new "bureaucratic burdens", protection for the competitiveness of the services and manufacturing sectors and for workplace protections to be maintained.

In response, the Conservatives said Labour supported the government's Brexit timetable in public, "but behind closed doors they talk about second referendums and now seek to attach conditions and tie the government's hands"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38297595

Sounds like we'll be having an election next year.....

CLAPTON

Herzlos wrote: »

1. That'd be xenophobia rather than racism
2. Very few Scots have actually dislike English people, just an English Parliament forcing decisions they don't want on them.

in general I would say 'xenophobia is the general dislike of foreigners.
Some scots have a specific dislike of the English which I would call racism; The general 'anyone but the english' is not really about the Westminster parliament but a general chip on the shoulder and inferiority complex that shows itself as racism.

setmefree2

More confusion from Labour as Keir contradicts Corbyn and Abbot.

Keir Starmer, Brexit spokesman for the U.K.’s opposition Labour Party, suggested control over immigration should be a red line in the coming negotiations while acknowledging it would make single-market access more difficult.

"In the negotiations to come, it is incumbent on the government to fight for the fullest possible market access and reasonable management of migration," he said. "We should demand nothing less."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-13/u-k-labour-party-s-starmer-pledges-to-fight-hard-brexit-plans

Moby

setmefree2 wrote: »

But many of the Norman and Plantagenet Kings never even lived in England - take Richard the Lion Heart - he hardly ever came to England - he viewed England as a source of funding for the defence of his territories in France (and for the crusades).

My point is this - you have a distorted view of history. England was invaded by the Normans in 1066. And Wales was invaded by the Normans partially in 1066 but conclusively by 1284.

Moby - fyi - the Welsh are made up of Gaelic tribes from the north of England forced to settle in Wales by the saxon invasion from the East and invasion from Scottish tribes from the north. Also Gaelic tribes from Ireland fled to Wales.

Yep I think you cut and pasted that well and your source is basically correct in part but I thought the Celts had links in central Europe?, another source says there are Celtic links in Spain/Portugal. Interestingly there are two main types of Welsh Celts, short dark in colouring and a taller fairer colouring, perhaps that explains it. Of course it changes nothing. The English state embarked on a bloody campaign of expansion.....as I said

Moby

setmefree2 wrote: »

More confusion from Labour as Keir contradicts Corbyn and Abbot.





https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-13/u-k-labour-party-s-starmer-pledges-to-fight-hard-brexit-plans

Labour divided by Brexit shock horror. I won't sleep at night knowing that:p

Ballard

I'm pretty bored with this thread as the same arguments keep getting repeated by both sides but this article expresses my thoughts pretty darned well so I thought that I'd post it.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/13/brexit-leave-voters-theresa-may-promise?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Moby

CLAPTON wrote: »

in general I would say 'xenophobia is the general dislike of foreigners.
Some scots have a specific dislike of the English which I would call racism; The general 'anyone but the english' is not really about the Westminster parliament but a general chip on the shoulder and inferiority complex that shows itself as racism.

I think you throw accusations of racism around far too easily. I reckon what you are describing would be more accurately described as prejudice. I've never seen any evidence that Scottish people think they are racially superior to the English. I think racism is most usefully used as a term in the USA or SA eg apartheid...Ku Klux etc.

setmefree2

Moby wrote: »

Yep I think you cut and pasted that well and your source is basically correct.

The facts speak for themselves.

Moby wrote: »

Of course it changes nothing but no suprise there;)

Well you carry on hating the English then - no surprise there either.

Best regards.