If we vote for Brexit what happens

ruggedtoast

Conrad wrote: »

I make no secret I supported independence, but the Scots did not agree.
The decision was made, I accept it. Now that we're leaving the EU it would be a huge risk for Svotland to tie itself to that lumbering beast. We will thrive like billyo and the Scots know this deep down, or will do soon.

Local democracy and independence is the best option for a nation, but not when it risks tieing Scotland to the has been EU disaster zone.

Rubbish. You knew full well throughout all your many posts pining for Scottish secession and denigrating "Bitter Together", that Scotland wanted to remain in the EU, and most likely would do.

There has never been any question of Scottish independence leading to independence from Europe.

Although come to think of it, your dismissing the No side as Bitter Together is no different to your devaluing the EU, a family of nations that has brought decades of peace and prosperity to Europe and has given us access to the largest trading bloc on the planet, as "A squabble shop."

kabayiri

ruggedtoast wrote: »

...
There has never been any question of Scottish independence leading to independence from Europe.
...

Of course there has.

Look at the voting turnout for the Scottish independence referendum.

Then look at the Scottish voting turnout for the EU referendum.

There is a *big* difference.

For whatever reason, the EU issue was just not as important.

A third of eligible Scottish voters felt that way.

If you do not vote, you end up trusting those that do.

setmefree2

Moby wrote: »

Absolute nonsense. The invasion of Wales was to extend the land grab of the English King and his retainers.

Edward 1 was a Plantagentet. The House of Platagenet was a royal house which originated from the lands of Anjou in France. Edward 1 married Eleanor of Castile (that's in Spain) and Margaret daughter of Philip the 3rd of France.

But keep it up I'm fascinated by the prejudice you are showing and how distorted your view of history is.

setmefree2

Moby wrote: »

The Normans settled in what later became France but they were originally Scandinavian from what I recall.

They were indeed the descendants of Vikings or North Men who had settled in France.

Moby wrote: »

Nevertheless the point I was making was that what became the English aristocracy then proceeded to follow a policy of wars against their celtic neighbours.

No they were mostly "Norman" or "French" Nobles (most Anglo Saxon nobles were killed at Hastings or during the harrying of the north). Norman French was the official language in England right through to the 15th century. (The rest of the population however carried on using English.)

Moby wrote: »

The United Kingdom has a history of bloody English imperialism.....so claims of 'taking back control' are rank hypocrisy.

As I said it was "the french" who united Wales with England - and the Scottish voted for union with England.

But carry on.....it's fascinating.

Moby

CLAPTON wrote: »

The last English king was killed at Hastings: thereafter the country was ruled by French kings (ethnic Scandinavians ) and then British kings of England and Wales.

It is true that neither wales nor england nor scotland nor wales had an entirely peaceful history : indeed it could reasonably be said that few peoples lived in a peaceful upotia.

Nothing of course wrong about discussing history of hundreds of years ago but to relate ones current difficulties to these issues is almost as stupid as to blame the EU for all the problems of the world.

Point taken but I think there are parallels which repeat throughout history and we draw inferences and conclusions from them. You always have to see an issue from someone else's point of view imo....it helps with empathy and perspective. In this case many Scottish people for example will see the EU differently from other parts of the UK.

Moby

setmefree2 wrote: »

No they were mostly "Norman" or "French" Nobles (most Anglo Saxon nobles were killed at Hastings or during the harrying of the north). Norman French was the official language in England right through to the 15th century. (The rest of the population however carried on using English

I know all this already. My point is whoever lives in England and makes the decisions in any time period becomes the English state and whatever their historical origin ethnically is they are responsible for what happens. The fact that Edward Longshanks was originally Norman doesn't change what he did. Whether they are French, Scandinavian, Martian whatever.....they pursued a history of bloody expansion. I agree ...it is fascinating!

setmefree2

Moby wrote: »

Yep I clearly invented everything. The English Kings have always had a peaceful relationship with their neighbours.;)

• England was invaded by the Romans 55 BC
• England was in invaded by the Angles and Saxons in about 450 AD
• From about 700 AD England was subject to Viking raids - by 1014 we had a Danish King C nut.
• In 1066 we invaded by the Normans who held sway from 100s of years
• In the 1500s we were attacked continuously by Spain

As for Scotland - the Anglo Norman baronial families married into the Scottish royal families - this brought Scotland closer to mainstream Europe - this is what the Scottish monarchs wanted. Many of them had Anglo Norman wives and estates in England.

setmefree2

Moby wrote: »

I know all this already. My point is whoever lives in England and makes the decisions in any time period becomes the English state and whatever their historical origin ethnically is they are responsible for what happens. The fact that Edward Longshanks was originally Norman doesn't change what he did. Whether they are French, Scandinavian, Martian whatever.....they pursued a history of bloody expansion. I agree ...it is fascinating!

But many of the Norman and Plantagenet Kings never even lived in England - take Richard the Lion Heart - he hardly ever came to England - he viewed England as a source of funding for the defence of his territories in France (and for the crusades).

My point is this - you have a distorted view of history. England was invaded by the Normans in 1066. And Wales was invaded by the Normans partially in 1066 but conclusively by 1284.

Moby - fyi - the Welsh are made up of Gaelic tribes from the north of England forced to settle in Wales by the saxon invasion from the East and invasion from Scottish tribes from the north. Also Gaelic tribes from Ireland fled to Wales.

Herzlos

CLAPTON wrote: »

of course SNP racism is concentrated on the hatred of the English: no sacking for being anti english in scotland

1. That'd be xenophobia rather than racism
2. Very few Scots have actually dislike English people, just an English Parliament forcing decisions they don't want on them.

Thrugelmir

Herzlos wrote: »

2. Very few Scots have actually dislike English people, just an English Parliament forcing decisions they don't want on them.

Such as which decisions?