If we vote for Brexit what happens

CLAPTON

padington wrote: »

Free trade is good for everyone up to a point. That point being the countries you trade with have to be relatively free countries, not totalitarian states. Otherwise it's not free trade, it's dirty desperate trade. If people didn't trade with the nazi's like they did we might not have ended up with 6 million dead people.

That's why a free trading block of democracies is a great thing. Trading on equal terms with dictators, autocrats or fascists might make us better off in the short term but believe me, it won't make the world a better place, it won't make the world 'better off'.

now that China trades widely with the world : is it a better or worse place than when the red guard were smashing heads and 40 million starved to death. (even if Abbott, McDonnell, Corbyn etc think the 40 million deaths were worthwile the results)

mrginge

wotsthat wrote: »

In the context of Brexit who cares about Labour? They're not in government and probably won't be for a while.

After all the moaning about how the govt shouldn't be allowed to determine the course of Brexit it now appears that you have performed a somewhat drastic U-turn.

Thrugelmir

wotsthat wrote: »

You've got to be true blue to call the Tories regular civil wars over Europe healthy debate.

Not politically minded. Not my sphere of interest. I can only relate it to my experiences during my lifetime. Sitting through 5/6 hour board meetings one appreciates heavy weight directors slugging it out with no gloves on. Only to see them being very social to each other afterwards.

As a consequence I'd call such debate being grown up. Whatever the final outcome. People then accept the result and get on with life. More often or not there's always a degree of compromise anyway. Isn't as black and white as muck stirrers like to believe. Often there's no news to speak of.

padington

CLAPTON wrote: »

now that China trades widely with the world : is it a better or worse place than when the red guard were smashing heads and 40 million starved to death. (even if Abbott, McDonnell, Corbyn etc think the 40 million deaths were worthwile the results)

You said trade, I was clearly talking free trade.

If the whole world offered every tin pot dictator free trade right now, all significant external influence to help them change for the better would be lost.

It school boy stuff, can't believe I'm having to even discuss it.

You seem to think opening up free trade agreements with the nazi's in January 1933 would have hindered hitter. It's apsolute nonsense. It would have made him even more powerful.

CLAPTON

padington wrote: »

You said trade, I was clearly talking free trade.

If the whole world offered every tin pot dictator free trade right now, all significant external influence to help them change for the better would be lost.

It school boy stuff, can't believe I'm having to even discuss it.

You seem to think opening up free trade agreements with the nazi's in January 1933 would have hindered hitter. It's apsolute nonsense. It would have made him even more powerful.

Trade is mutual benefitical.
Free trade is more benefiical.

China is a better place for both its citizens and the rest of the world due to trade and the correspsonding travel and knowledge of each other.

I'm sure that there are situations where refusing to trade is effective method of modifying aggressive behaviour but that didn't work with china and I've no reason to believe that if millions of germans' jobs had depended upon trade with UK, France etc then the event so 1939 might have been very different

setmefree2

Facebook shrugs off Brexit and announces London recruitment spree

http://www.standard.co.uk/business/facebook-shrugs-off-brexit-and-announces-london-recruitment-spree-a3400706.html

Smiggle braves 200 UK store openings despite Brexit

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/11/20/smiggle-braves-200-uk-store-openings-despite-brexit/

Conrad

padington wrote: »

You said trade, I was clearly talking free trade.

If the whole world offered every tin pot dictator free trade right now, all significant external influence to help them change for the better would be lost.

It school boy stuff, can't believe I'm having to even discuss it.

You seem to think opening up free trade agreements with the nazi's in January 1933 would have hindered hitter. It's apsolute nonsense. It would have made him even more powerful.

I have not seen anyone saying we should trade freely with every single nation.


Mind you I'm not sure we need to police the world, aren't we sick of that?

Conrad

ruggedtoast wrote: »

The UK doesn't even have a strong military presence in the UK so I doubt that's going to be much of a bargaining chip in the long run.

More post-truth politics I see.


Our military projects by far the most power, experience, kit and competence locally. 2 massive aircraft carriers in the pipe, and yes we will have planes for them.

sabretoothtigger

kabayiri wrote: »

A party where most of the MPs despise their leader is hardly united.

They could keep up the pretence until an election, but after that the cracks would appear.

Thats true of every party, they all want to stab the top guy in the back and assume his role. Somehow I dont think peoples view of politics is especially realistic

Tromking

Conrad wrote: »

More post-truth politics I see.


Our military projects by far the most power, experience, kit and competence locally. 2 massive aircraft carriers in the pipe, and yes we will have planes for them.

The potential loss of the UK`s considerable military clout (in European terms) has caused much gnashing of teeth in Paris and Berlin it is said. They quite like having the heft of the UK military in the background when trying to project the EU`s foreign policy agenda.
I suppose France will have to up its share of the burden.