If we vote for Brexit what happens

mwpt

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Imagine the collapse of socialism if Front National and AfD got into power?

Expand that, and imagine if in Italy Renzi goes in December and 5Star gets into power like they have in Rome, and SD in Sweden, FPO in Austira (currently on course to win: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_presidential_election,_2016#Second_round_re-vote), Hungary are already there. The EU are facing a crisis but the political will that holds it together is in crisis, and they continue not to listen.

Not to listen to what? Most anti-EU people want nothing short of the destruction of the EU. Should "the EU" listen to them and proceed to dismantle?

It's like this current weird anti-liberal phase. People are lurching to the right, ignoring the fact what we now take for granted as just common sense (gay rights, women's rights, anti-slavery) were once seen as mad liberal ideas, and while lurching to the right, blaming their own actions on liberals.

If you want to be anti-immigrant, fine, but take responsibility, you make the decision. I'm not talking to you specifically, I'm talking to this wishy washy cop out culture where it seems it is ok to to be a !!!! because you can blame your !!!!-ness on people who were too liberal and forced you to be a !!!!.

TrickyTree83

mwpt wrote: »

Not to listen to what? Most anti-EU people want nothing short of the destruction of the EU. Should "the EU" listen to them and proceed to dismantle?

It's like this current weird anti-liberal phase. People are lurching to the right, ignoring the fact what we now take for granted as just common sense (gay rights, women's rights, anti-slavery) were once seen as mad liberal ideas, and while lurching to the right, blaming their own actions on liberals.

If you want to be anti-immigrant, fine, but take responsibility, you make the decision. I'm not talking to you specifically, I'm talking to this wishy washy cop out culture where it sems it is ok to to be a !!!! because you can blame your !!!!-ness on people who were too liberal and forced you to be a !!!!.

There's a general trend of citizens voting against governments that tell them how to think. If they continue to ignore sections of the population discontent grows.

Liberalism is great, when it's liberalism. It's not anymore, they've become the thought and speech police. Just look at the options for gender when filling in government forms. There should be only two, biology tells us this. If you want to identify as a non-binary gender that's your business but don't enforce the rest of the population to think as you do. That's not oppression to want society to be based on facts rather than peoples interpretation of them. It is however oppression to inflict a paradigm on a people that they disagree with in the name of social justice.

A great example in America is the recent relaxation on laws related to toilets. Do you really think the liberal movement thought it through when they allow a bearded man in a dress to sit in the cubicle next to your 8 year old daughter because he identifies as a woman? It's a nonsense, I'm glad the Americans are trying to put a stop to it and I hope it carries on over here so that we return to some semblance of logic, reason and facts in how we govern ourselves.

CLAPTON

mwpt wrote: »

If you want to be anti-immigrant, fine, but take responsibility, you make the decision. I'm not talking to you specifically, I'm talking to this wishy washy cop out culture where it seems it is ok to to be a !!!! because you can blame your !!!!-ness on people who were too liberal and forced you to be a !!!!.

You are in favour of controls on the level of immigration : do you not consider yourself to be a hypocrite?

prosaver

funny how Germany thinks they are in charge of the EU and sky news (yet again)
didnt report it as another project fear tactic.

Britain could continue paying into the European Union for more than a decade after it leaves, Germany's finance minister has said

.

Wolfgang Schauble warned the UK will remain bound by tax rules that stop it from incentivising investors to stay in the country and there was a possibility its commitments to Brussels will "last beyond exit"

oh yeah,nice warning ..BTW how VW and the emissions lies to USA and UK.
oh, how much is the EU going to fine you?

steampowered

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Liberalism is great, when it's liberalism. It's not anymore, they've become the thought and speech police. Just look at the options for gender when filling in government forms. There should be only two, biology tells us this. If you want to identify as a non-binary gender that's your business but don't enforce the rest of the population to think as you do. That's not oppression to want society to be based on facts rather than peoples interpretation of them. It is however oppression to inflict a paradigm on a people that they disagree with in the name of social justice.

I've never heard so much nonsense in my life. How is having an option for transgender people to pick forcing anything on anybody? Why do you even care, how does it affect your life in any way? I honestly don't get it.

A great example in America is the recent relaxation on laws related to toilets. Do you really think the liberal movement thought it through when they allow a bearded man in a dress to sit in the cubicle next to your 8 year old daughter because he identifies as a woman? It's a nonsense, I'm glad the Americans are trying to put a stop to it and I hope it carries on over here so that we return to some semblance of logic, reason and facts in how we govern ourselves.

Personally I find it stunning that people care about this stuff. With all the issues in the world, you really spend that much time thinking supporting laws telling transgender people which bathroom to use? That's your legislative priority?

The laws you are supporting are also ridiculous. These are laws which force transgender people to use the bathroom for the gender they were assigned at birth. Here is a picture of a transgender person who would be forced to use the woman's bathroom under those laws. Does that seem correct to you? Would you be happy to see this person in the women's toilet?

mwpt

CLAPTON wrote: »

You are in favour of controls on the level of immigration : do you not consider yourself to be a hypocrite?

Sorry, I'm a bit tired tonight, so I'm going to skip the clapton dance.

CLAPTON

mwpt wrote: »

Sorry, I'm a bit tired tonight, so I'm going to skip the clapton dance.

just admit you are against unlimited immigration
but it goes against you bigoted views.

CLAPTON

mayonnaise wrote: »

You hit the nail on the head there.

but you don't believe in unlimited immigration : some would say that is hyptocritical
except, maybe you distinguish between white, christian, europeans and other peoples.
but thats you...........

TrickyTree83

steampowered wrote: »

I've never heard so much nonsense in my life. How is having an option for transgender people to pick forcing anything on anybody? Why do you even care, how does it affect your life in any way? I honestly don't get it.


Personally I find it stunning that people care about this stuff. With all the issues in the world, you really spend that much time thinking supporting laws telling transgender people which bathroom to use? That's your legislative priority?

The laws you are supporting are also ridiculous. These are laws which force transgender people to use the bathroom for the gender they were assigned at birth. Here is a picture of a transgender person who would be forced to use the woman's bathroom under those laws. Does that seem correct to you? Would you be happy to see this person in the women's toilet?

Yes.

Identity politics needs to end. That's the nonsense.

I find it shockingly ridiculous that you use use phrase "gender they were assigned at birth", there's two, you're one or the other on a cellular level and it's determined before birth. Don't like the facts? I don't care. That's reality and that's how we should govern. It's not assigned, it's just a fact.

For example the left is constantly dividing people up into minorities, assigning them a label and then telling everyone else they're oppressing them. It's rubbish. Don't create minorities, treat everyone equally. When tough issues like gender identification come along rely on empiricism, it's what works. If we go down your route why have separate boxing? Let's allow women who identify as men box in the men's boxing. Let's allow men who identify as women to teach breast feeding techniques. Let's allow children to have gender reassignment surgery like they do in Canada. The left has gone sodding nuts and they are getting a political kicking for it, and rightly so.

You sit there and say allow trans gender to use facilities that match what they identify as, focusing on the minority and forcing the majority to comply. Forcing people of faith who cannot share facilities with opposite genders, what about these people? Especially if they're a minority. What if they complain, oh no, what a liberal nutjob quandary!

Give me a break.

It's circular thinking, it's stupid, it's wrong on an empirical level and it needs to stop. Empiricism not identity politics.

Moby

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

There's a general trend of citizens voting against governments that tell them how to think. If they continue to ignore sections of the population discontent grows.

Liberalism is great, when it's liberalism. It's not anymore, they've become the thought and speech police. Just look at the options for gender when filling in government forms. There should be only two, biology tells us this. If you want to identify as a non-binary gender that's your business but don't enforce the rest of the population to think as you do. That's not oppression to want society to be based on facts rather than peoples interpretation of them. It is however oppression to inflict a paradigm on a people that they disagree with in the name of social justice.

A great example in America is the recent relaxation on laws related to toilets. Do you really think the liberal movement thought it through when they allow a bearded man in a dress to sit in the cubicle next to your 8 year old daughter because he identifies as a woman? It's a nonsense, I'm glad the Americans are trying to put a stop to it and I hope it carries on over here so that we return to some semblance of logic, reason and facts in how we govern ourselves.

Yep lets return to the good old days when men were men and women were grateful.:rotfl:...... and we all knew were we stood! How dare people try to define their own identity or even have a view on it.....Yes the world is a complicated place for the reactionary.......that's why they try to preserve everything in aspic and we should all know our place! How dare that 'socialist' :eek: Merkel........ a woman at that......and a German to boot.....dare to order us British around. Well we showed them pesky liberals....we have taken back our country and we'll be fine because the Donald likes us and Nigel had a word with him. He'll make sure those awful continental types, the dirty decadent rotters, don't do us over on Brexit........just so long as we are a bit kinder to Uncle Vladimir!.....who is very happy with his masculine identity by the way......have you seen him topless on that horse........such a man, such a hero. He has put those gays in their place......... I'm a liberal really though, really I am...it's just that those awful socialist types just pushed me too far.......and by the way it's the immigrants fault.