If we vote for Brexit what happens

Masomnia

wotsthat wrote: »

Sides are becoming less relevant. It's the smallest of deals for the government to explain in 10 - 15 bullet points what they hope to achieve.

They can be debated and then they can vote to trigger article 50. It's nothing but a courtesy and being respectful of parliament. It also gives away nothing of our negotiating position.

If the debate was purely about whether to trigger article 50 I'd see that as the government acting in bad faith.

Mmmm but I don't see how we can say what we hope to achieve without giving our position away.

So far we've heard that May does not want the UK to be bound by the European Court of Justice and she wants to limit free movement - this already heavily implies a hard Brexit as it seems highly unlikely that we can remain members with those conditions.

Personally I think if that's what we're aiming for then the best we can do is approach the negotiations stating that we want zero tariffs and financial passporting, ie as few barriers to trade as possible. It's up to them where they want to put barriers up.

kabayiri

Masomnia wrote: »

...
So far we've heard that May does not want the UK to be bound by the European Court of Justice and she wants to limit free movement - this already heavily implies a hard Brexit as it seems highly unlikely that we can remain members with those conditions.
...

The referendum effectively painted the government in to a corner. May is in fact stuck.

If she fails on free movement, she alienates all those voters who dislike mass migration. If she fails on passporting she alienates the City and supporting London jobs.

It doesn't help that different areas have different priorities.

wotsthat

Masomnia wrote: »

Mmmm but I don't see how we can say what we hope to achieve without giving our position away.

So far we've heard that May does not want the UK to be bound by the European Court of Justice and she wants to limit free movement - this already heavily implies a hard Brexit as it seems highly unlikely that we can remain members with those conditions.

Personally I think if that's what we're aiming for then the best we can do is approach the negotiations stating that we want zero tariffs and financial passporting, ie as few barriers to trade as possible. It's up to them where they want to put barriers up.

There you go. You've come up with 4 of the bullet points already.

Herzlos

kabayiri wrote: »

What's wrong with both sides declaring their positions when A50 is called, and then pausing to have a debate in parliament?

In order to do that, you need to know what your position is *before* triggering A50. Plus, we've only got 2 years to agree before reverting to WTO terms, which will cripple us.

We can't define Brexit because we don't know the differing views of the 27 EU states yet.

No but we can define what we're at least going to try and pitch to them.

Moby

At least some are calling the right wing gutter press for what they are, xenophobic bullies prepared to use their rags to denigrate Judges who do not act in the way they want them to......while at the same time bleating on about getting control back of our sovereignty.....they malign the very judges upholding it! The fascist, Hitler supporting Daily Mail.....worst of all!:-


https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/nov/04/labour-condemns-newspaper-attacks-on-judges-after-brexit-ruling

The former attorney general Dominic Grieve also expressed alarm at the attacks on the judiciary. He said: “They are entirely unjustified and are either made in ignorance or out of malice, it’s impossible to know which.
“The judges are the safeguarders of our unwritten constitution. Nothing they have done ought to take anybody by surprise. To accede to the principle that you can change primary legislation by royal prerogative is a constitutional monstrosity and would totally undermine everything that our forebears struggled to give us. It would trash the constitution.

kabayiri

Herzlos wrote: »

In order to do that, you need to know what your position is *before* triggering A50. Plus, we've only got 2 years to agree before reverting to WTO terms, which will cripple us.



No but we can define what we're at least going to try and pitch to them.

You can certainly set out aspirations and priorities I would agree.

But, you know what politicians are like. Corbyn and his mates will try to turn these aspirations into promises, and use them later to hang the government by an EU made noose.

Maybe this reflects on my confidence in UK and EU politicians, which is pretty low by any standard.

Gutless. Best word I can find.

Conrad

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Oh yes. Canada and South Korea. Well you are obviously an expert on these subjects (alongside everything else) so you know that Canada is part of NAFTA and does have to pool sovereignty over a number of econimic issues with the United States and Mexico. Canadians also have visa free travel to the USA (free movement, gasp).

Canadians do have to have a job offer to receive a visa to work in the US but these are not limited in any way.

Canada also settles around 250,000 immigrants a year. It's hardly pulled the drawbridge up or withdrawn from its region as you imagine for the UK.

South Korea you clearly know nothing about. Spend 5 minutes talking to a Korean man about how they think Korea has been treated by the rest of the world, and its current status.

Evidence. Spending 1/5 of each year in a North America and having lived in the Far East for 3 years.

I've met plenty of Aussies, Canadians and others, and never once has one said 'do you know what really keeps us up at night, a lack of global influence, damn I wish we weren't an independent sovereign nation'

Moby

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Tory majority looking to being slashed to just 8.

May could very well lose a Brexit vote in Parliament which would force a GE. Except her own party are now leaning on her to just call a GE now.

Which the Tories could very well lose. That would leave a Lab, Lib Dem, SNP hung parliament which would mean by next Spring JEREMY CORBYN COULD BE PRIME MINISTER

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
:j:j:j:j:j:j:j:j:j:j:j:j:j:j:j:j:j:j:j

OMG its just too funny. To say the Tories keep sabotaging themselves over Europe doesn't even cover it.

OMG, the Brexiteer reaction. Vote Leave, win, get Jeremy Corbyn.

Ahahahahahahaha haaa haa ahahahah!

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

You see now.....how Labour would be in such a better position to take advantage if we had someone as leader who was just a tad more electable than Jeremy effing Corbyn:mad:!
If she did call an election:-
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/
The regular ICM poll for the Guardian has topline voting intentions of CON 43%(nc), LAB 27%(+1), LDEM 8%(nc), UKIP 12%(+1), GRN 5%(-1). Changes are since mid October.

mayonnaise

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Canadians also have visa free travel to the USA (free movement, gasp).

Gasp! Someone needs to notify clapton that this visa free travel doesn't extend to African nations.

Conrad

Moby wrote: »

At least some are calling the right wing gutter press for what they are, xenophobic bullies prepared to use their rags to denigrate

Left wing press has spent decades telling those on the right or with concerns about mass immigration that they are nasty, loons, like kicking the disabled, xenophobic, thick, lemmings etc etc


Don't talk to me about press bullying.


I'm on The Guardian and Independent daily, full of nasty people, akin to all those we hear of on the left sending nasty threatening texts to 'Blairites', Jews, Women etc, and spitting on Tory delegates. Lefties have long portrayed their Saintly credentials, but it's turned out to be a charade, no wonder you lot pretend to want redistribution but cling to every penny you can, charlatans. I prefer the honesty of a right wing person that does not disguise their money hoarding under sickly compassion narratives


No wonder lefties celebrate stealing vital skilled Doctors and nurses from the vulnerable developing world. Greed all the way