If we vote for Brexit what happens

Yamumuk

I found it myself in the right wing narrative peddler : The Telegraph

"By contrast, Britain’s nine million poorest paid workers contribute less than four per cent of the total income tax receipt."

Rightly so, the bottom 9 million earn a pittance and quite rightly do not pay tax on earnings below around £9,500.00

It does not however mention those in the middle earning circa £25,000 - £28,000 which is the average income where most people sit with their incomes. This is what you could determine working class wages.

Yamumuk

"Brexit will eventually pan out the exact same way that not joining the Euro did. The world was going to end after we decided not to join the Euro, it didn't. Would we have been better off inside the Euro? Who knows you can only compare to what actually took place."

A preposterous statement. How can you compare the dis-entanglement which is in part (greatly) responsible for collective improvement of rights, continued peace, social progress and prosperity with joining the Euro ? You can't.

You have no idea what is going to happen because you have zero control over what is going to happen.

To dissect the narrative of the manipulative Telegraph article...

"In all, 29.9 million people pay income tax in the UK. According to the new figures released by HM revenue & Customs (HMRC), almost one-third of income tax payers contribute less to the Exchequer than the top 3,000 earners - equivalent to 0.01 per cent of the total. "

Which means essentially 2/3rd of societies (minus 3,000 super rich) middle earners pay an unspecified massive amount more than the top earners. Missing out the middle earners out to vilify the lowest earners, a disgusting tactic.

May I suggest learning to read between the lines before telling others not to believe X blindly.

TrickyTree83

Yamumuk wrote: »

I found it myself in the right wing narrative peddler : The Telegraph

"By contrast, Britain’s nine million poorest paid workers contribute less than four per cent of the total income tax receipt."

Rightly so, the bottom 9 million earn a pittance and quite rightly do not pay tax on earnings below around £9,500.00

It does not however mention those in the middle earning circa £25,000 - £28,000 which is the average income where most people sit with their incomes. This is what you could determine working class wages.

I used to earn the average about 10 years ago. The taxation was wonderful compared to what I pay now. I pulled my socks up and worked to increase my salary and now my tax bill exceeds the net amount of my pay 10 years ago.

How it is at the moment is fine-ish. I earn more, I pay more, I can reconcile with that. But you can't simply keep milking the well paid and rich for more and more. You'll push them away. Then when your tax base disappears you've got even bigger problems. Have you come across the laffer curve?

TrickyTree83

Yamumuk wrote: »

"Brexit will eventually pan out the exact same way that not joining the Euro did. The world was going to end after we decided not to join the Euro, it didn't. Would we have been better off inside the Euro? Who knows you can only compare to what actually took place."

A preposterous statement. How can you compare the dis-entanglement which is in part (greatly) responsible for collective improvement of rights, continued peace, social progress and prosperity with joining the Euro ? You can't.

You have no idea what is going to happen because you have zero control over what is going to happen.

It's not preposterous at all. It's pragmatic.

Continued peace in Europe came about through NATO primarily. It started there, the EU came along afterwards. Since both the EU and NATO will still exist after Brexit why should Brexit cause these pillars of peace on the continent to dissolve and cause conflict?

Improvement of rights? Have you checked when the rights you enjoy were enacted by the UK parliament? Probably before they came into force within the EU. In many cases UK law exceeds the EU minimums.

On the issue of dis-entanglement the UK government has so far been quite sensible. They propose enacting all the current EU legislation into UK law and tweaking and repealing one by one if it's at all required.

TrickyTree83

Yamumuk wrote: »

To dissect the narrative of the manipulative Telegraph article...

"In all, 29.9 million people pay income tax in the UK. According to the new figures released by HM revenue & Customs (HMRC), almost one-third of income tax payers contribute less to the Exchequer than the top 3,000 earners - equivalent to 0.01 per cent of the total. "

Which means essentially 2/3rd of societies (minus 3,000 super rich) middle earners pay an unspecified massive amount more than the top earners. Missing out the middle earners out to vilify the lowest earners, a disgusting tactic.

May I suggest learning to read between the lines before telling others not to believe X blindly.

~30m income tax payers.

~33% contribute less than the top 3,000. This ~33% contribute 0.01% of the total income tax take.

So the higher earners, those in the top 66%, pay 99.9% of income tax. Right?

Where does it say how much the top 33% pay? I agree it misses out not only the 'middle earners' and their 33% but also the top 33%.

I don't see how you derive the view that the middle earners pay a 'massive amount more than the top earners' from that information. Given that the amount of people earning middle incomes will be greater than those on higher incomes, the number of people contributing in the middle 33% will undoubtedly be higher than the number of people in the top 33%. It's the ratio of people to tax revenue that's important, and the top 33% will be shown to pay their way if you look for that information.

Did I read between the lines enough this time?

mwpt

CKhalvashi wrote: »

Im honestly beyond the stage where I care

I do find it highly amusing though that apparently I'm not a British citizen because of my username.

While I don't agree with a lot of ruggestoast's views, I do believe he was using satire in this case to make a point.

ruggedtoast

Unbelievable. It's like 1938 in Germany.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/07/lse-brexit-non-uk-experts-foreign-academics?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

TrickyTree83

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Unbelievable. It's like 1938 in Germany.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/07/lse-brexit-non-uk-experts-foreign-academics?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

If they are concerned about a conflict of interest then it makes sense to me. Similar to when your solicitor won't continue to work for both you and your mortgage provider if they become aware of something you refuse to disclose.

Also on the topic of foreign people associated with the LSE.

Gunnar Beck:http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2016/09/19/germany-and-the-eu-cant-afford-to-drive-a-hard-bargain-over-brexit/

I'd recommend all have a read of the above. If you don't like hearing it from people on this forum, perhaps someone with credentials hailing from the country in question will help put some credibility into what is being said.

Yamumuk

30 mill - 1/3 = 10 mill = 20mill (minus 3,000 super rich) tax payers paying the bulk of taxes.

Corporation tax not enough being paid from multinationals.

Yamumuk

Anyway you cut it, it seems to me that slightly more than 1/2 of voters seem to think that not quite but eluding to : neo-fascist policy is the right way to improve their standards of living in some way. I suspect when the miracles of Brexit do not meet the masses expectations... middle classes human right to a Mercedes and a step up on the property ladder for the young, increased benefits, higher wages, less E.U. citizens in the U.K. and a silky smooth running NHS voters will vote for an actual neo fascist party UKIP. Sorry if that 7 letter word wakes you. I know those terms are hard to hear but it is not possible to wriggle out of the fact that their policy is without question in the direction of fascism. We should not shy away from these words as if they should only exist in historical context. That is dangerous in the extreme. I suggest we should use the word often and remind ourselves what it means and why it is relevant now.
I also think that making light of comparisons with the far right, fascism and the Nazis and making light by saying : "Some think we should be walking around with Swastika's on foreheads." should be viewed with the scrutiny and concern that any person who values freedom, tolerance and compassion for other humans.
Get used to these words appearing more and more. "Lest us forget." ring any bells ?