Child Benefit & Child Maintenance

clearingout

LilElvis wrote: »

No, I'm currently a stay at home Mum. I worked 20 years prior to that, mainly as a higher rate tax payer. I don't actually need to justify myself because I have never cost the State a penny - my "costs" have been born by the household of which I have been a member, as a child by my parents, as a single person by myself, as a partner jointly and now my husband supports the three of us.

oh...and you never cost the state a penny? no state education for you and your children? no healthcare for you or your children or any other member of your prestigious household? never used a subsidised service such as the library or sports centre or been to night school? never driven on a public road or motorway? You or your children have never used an NHS dentist? Or had an NHS eye care voucher? didn't go to a state funded university? or receive a state-funded grant/loan/bursary to help you achieve your degree?

You know that paying higher rate tax doesn't make you better than anyone else? Or that lower rate tax payers also work hard? Or even that many lower rate tax payers are people who have qualifications coming out of their ears but who have struggled to find work in their chosen field or who have chosen to work in a lower paid field when their qualifications and experiences could have been put to use for far higher salaries in industry?

Did you ever what might happen to you and your children should your husband not come home tomorrow? Could you meet all your expenses without resorting to the public purse? If your children are today in private school and have private healthcare, could you continue to meet these costs? Did you manage to get insurance against your husband running off with his accountant? Has all the tax you paid in 20 years covered every possible use of public funded services you may use between now and your death?

You know that there's a certain amount of...irony in judging people who's lives you know only a few lines of writing about on an internet forum when you yourself are expecting someone else to support you?

LannieDuck

This thread's getting really nasty. Hopefully the mods will lock it soon.

RuthnJasper

LannieDuck wrote: »

This thread's getting really nasty. Hopefully the mods will lock it soon.

Hope so too LannieD. x

mumps

clearingout wrote: »

So you're better than the rest of us then? 'cos life worked out OK for you? You don't need to justify yourself to anyone but anyone who doesn't meet your standards needs to justify themselves to you?

I don't think anyone has said they think they are better than anyone else. I think people are concerned at the thought of a young man of 20 with problems not getting the support to finish his course and about another baby on the way when Pigpen says she can't feed the ones she has. Her words were, "we can't afford to eat as it is." She is losing £200 a week and another baby on the way I think that is a real worry.

I don't think point scoring or being nasty is helping anyone. Pigpen has done her share of name calling, blob anyone?

I too hope the thread is locked, I don't know how Pigpen normally posts but she is obviously an older mum if she has kids in their 20s and I know that can bring its own problems, I was pushing 40 with my last one and it was my most difficult pregnancy. She is obviously in a stressed condition if she can't afford to eat and her income is being reduced. Perhaps we should all walk away for the sake of the baby, all this can't be doing her blood pressure any good.

LilElvis

Clearingout - I'm not going to quote your post, but I will answer some of your points.

The households of which I have been a member have paid for my immediate needs - housing, food, clothing etc - and the State provided me with healthcare, education, policing, highways etc. The households have paid more in income tax, national insurance, council tax, VAT, fuel duty etc than they have cost to the State purse - ie they have been net contributors into the system.

I received no grants or other State funding whilst at University, save the fees which were, effectively, paid for by my parents taxes. I did claim unemployment benefit for 2 weeks nearly 30 years ago, but as I had been working and paying taxes that doesn't seem unfair.

Thank you for your concerns about my future welfare, but they are quite groundless. Should my husband die then I would be in receipt of life insurance and pensions from his current and previous employer - I wouldn't require additional financial support from the State and would be paying taxes from my income into the State coffers. Should my husband up and leave me then I would purchase my own home, as would he, and I would most likely return to paid employment - once again contributing to the State in my own name.

There must be millions of households like mine who are net contributors because if there wasn't then the whole State system would collapse. I have never said that I begrudge money going to help support those who cannot fully support themselves due to illness, low wages or those who are unemployed and actively seeking work in order to support their families. I have expressed my incredulity that someone thinks that it is reasonable to keep having children whilst admitting that they cannot provide for the ones they already have, despite significant State support.

DUTR

mumps wrote: »

I don't think anyone has said they think they are better than anyone else. I think people are concerned at the thought of a young man of 20 with problems not getting the support to finish his course and about another baby on the way when Pigpen says she can't feed the ones she has. Her words were, "we can't afford to eat as it is." She is losing £200 a week and another baby on the way I think that is a real worry.

I don't think point scoring or being nasty is helping anyone. Pigpen has done her share of name calling, blob anyone?

I too hope the thread is locked, I don't know how Pigpen normally posts but she is obviously an older mum if she has kids in their 20s and I know that can bring its own problems, I was pushing 40 with my last one and it was my most difficult pregnancy. She is obviously in a stressed condition if she can't afford to eat and her income is being reduced. Perhaps we should all walk away for the sake of the baby, all this can't be doing her blood pressure any good.

The thread has rail roaded from the OP's post.
People are concerned at who should be ultimately responsible for securing the boy's future eg not us the readers.
The troll could actually be in her 30s :eek:

FBaby

My grandparents paid for your education, my children will pay for your grandchildrens education.. Have you ever heard of 'paying it forward' ?? I can't give my children much but I hope by enabling them to have a decent education I can give them a decent grounding for the future but it looks likely my son will have to leave halfway through the year because we cant afford for him to finish.. it's like the 1800's!

It really amazes me how those who clearly don't care that they can only get what they want through the support of strangers come up with the most utterly senseless excuses to justify that they really only care about themselves.

So your parents contributed for themselves and others, your children will invest (or so you believe) for themselves and others, but you.... don't think you have any responsibility to do the same because your parents did and your children will so it makes it all ok. Do you convince yourself of this rationale to make you feel better for the choices you've made that means you can't support yourself? Because it doesn't away the fact that only you have made those decision, not your parents and not your children.

It's amazing too how you consider that because your son can't get a free education any longer, his future is compromised. Shouldn't you as a mum who believes in the value of education encourage him to take on a full-time job, save every penny and then pay to study in the evening? It's what many people do without moaning. They accept that they missed an opportunity, that it was their own doing and therefore their responsibility to find another way around it but not your son who is only the victim not of the choices you've made, not of the choices he's made, but the victim of society letting him down for not yet providing him with more financial support.

silvercar

My amazement was that someone who is relying on the benefit situation to maximise their income in their current situation:

a) did not realise that certain benefits would stop at a point in time (whether that was 18, 19 or 20), surely the words 'dependent' and 'child' were clues.
b) hadn't planned ahead for when their children would not be deemed financially dependent on them.
c) hadn't evaluated the finances of any course of study. Don't all potential students look at the student finance available when choosing further study? Why wouldn't anyone of a similar age not do the same?When you have a parent who is used to relying on benefits do the same for any child of theirs. Surely all parents sit down with their child and discuss the length and location of courses? and the impact on their finances that such choices make.

This is said without any malice towards someone who is choosing to have a large family, or whose current situation puts them in a benefit trap. I just find it unbelievable that someone in a situation where the household income is majorly made up of benefits, doesn't think ahead to how that situation changes in the months ahead.

I also don't understand the family dynamic where you can say to your child that if the benefits drop, then they have to leave their course within months of it finishing.

missbiggles1

^^^^^
As above.

Also, which goes some way to explaining some people's bewilderment with pigpen's attitude, is the fact that several of us were recently involved with her in a thread about HE funding, where she was very vehement (and also rude) about the need for adults to be independent and pay their own way.

She was particularly angry with the attitude of entitlement that she feels is prevalent today - obviously with no sense of irony whatsoever.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5386779

princesstippytoes

pigpen wrote: »

but you wont be useful.. you will be a blob in a chair and all those people doing everything with be someones child, just like my children.. so while your husbands tax is paying every penny of tax credit paid out in the country (how the heck much does he earn!! :eek:) and you begrudge all those children from low income families every penny they get in your jealousy & bitterness.. it is that money enabling these children to be educated and be willing and able to look after you..

The 3 parents who created my children actually pay more in tax than we receive so your hubby is off the hook.

Look. If you were receiving in excess of £3500 in state benefits for the children you had five years ago, even taking into account those children who have left home since then, you have had another three children since then so I'm guessing that the benefit income is about the same. You're also claiming more DLA since then aren't you. Even between the three of you working, and I don't see how you are (you've never mentioned a job before)or your partner is when he's at uni, there is no way there is £3500 being paid in taxes.

pigpen wrote: »

Nope.. sorry, you're still waaaaay off... keep stalking.. you've been slacking since your previous Id

hahaha ..

So why not tell us how little you get?

pigpen wrote: »

then they have no right to make assumptions of any kind, other peoples bigotry is not my problem.


Am I overpaying my mortgage though or am I just paying enough to not fall into arrears?


You only need to declare items which you purchased in order to sell at a profit.. I researched carefully and spoke to the HMRC too.. because I keep things above board.


The number of children isn't relevant.. it is the number which are dependent that is.. so 11 is inaccurate and also misleading.

So how many dependant children do you have. If you were a bit more transparent about this people might have more sympathy.

As for your assertion that the benefits System is like the 1800s!?! Do you realise where your family would be in the 1800s? There would be NO benefits, no free further education. No DLA, no tax credits, no child benefit, no housing benefit, no council tax credit. No healthcare, no maternity provisions. And no eBay to top you up.

Sorry Pigpen. You have come on this thread and been really horrid to other posters, you've been viscously defensive but haven't given a straight answer about your true circumstances. It's no wonder people are suspicious.