UKPPO PCN through Post

bennjiboy

1. Do UKPPO have the authority to enforce byelaws as byelaws aren't in effect where the incident took place as Road Traffic Enactments already apply there, and this is clearly referenced in the byelaws themselves. Please send a fully signed and stamped copy of the said byelaws.
2. Regarding the byelaws, please provide evidence that the byelaws overrule Road Traffic Legislation as the Road Traffic Legislation applies to the airport roads landside areas by virtue the public has access to them.
3. UKPPO have obtained the registered keeper's data from the DVLA under the auspices of this being in relation to a PARKING incident, please provide evidence to show the vehicle was “Parked” as at no time did a “Parking” incident occur.
4. The alleged incident occurred in the driveway to the DoubleTree Hotel, not on double red lines, nor on a yellow box junction. There is no evidence to suggest that this is part of the roads covered by your contract with NIAL, and no signage within that driveway into the hotel which is owned and operated by the hotel and not NIAL.
5. Please provide full details of your contract with NIAL, signed and stamped, evidencing the legality of your invoice.
6. Please provide full details of the calculation of the £60 charge, along with details of how this figure was arrived at, in conjunction with the Bylaws you suggest in your letter. The demand for a payment of £60 is punitive, unreasonable, exceeds an appropriate amount, and has no relationship to the loss that would have been suffered by the Landowner.
7. The signs you claim to have are obviously not readable from a moving vehicle when in an airport environment. Notwithstanding the fact that you would need to be stationary to read any sign is in itself a dangerous maneuver on a public road.
8. Is UKPPO a legal entity and trading company as the Creditor is not identified. Its impossible to contract with an unidentified entity.
9. Does UKPPO have any interest or assignment of title of the land in question regarding the driveway into the Hilton Doubletree?

Marktheshark

I would make the "No contract" point 1

Supreme court PE vs Beavis:
Supreme court ruled that a parking charge contract is a genuine offer, that once the signs are read and the driver parks and leaves the car they have accepted the contract.
In this instance the driver spent 30 seconds on the site in which time they read the contract offer , declined the offer to contract and left the site without parking.
The offer to contract can only be formed by performance which involves reading the sign and making a decision to accept, the offer to decline is also a lawful option.
The offer to contract was declined and no performance of the contractual terms was carried out as the driver left the site within 30 seconds after studying the offer and deciding to decline the offer.
Therefore Beavis Vs PE supreme court stands in this case.
No contract was entered.

Lets see how they like it up em for a change.
They will reject it, the IPC and its coffee servers barristers will reject it, if they try court, Beavis vs PE is now case law and it went in to some detail at which point the contract is formed.

Point 2 Bylaws : Bylaws are common law offences, they can only be tried at Magistrates court and reported a police constable.
They are not statutory offences which can be reported by persons authorised by the secretary of state under devolved powers such as civil enforcement officers example, a dog sht warden.
A private parking company can not enforce any by-law as they are not sworn to oath to her royal highness the queen as a police constable, so this accusation is actually quite ridicules to say the least .

bennjiboy

awesome thanks!

i can understand why so many of you would love to see a case like this go to court....it would be like real madrid playing darlington with 8 men :-)

Redx

you can read a good saga on these cowboys in this thread

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5325524

bennjiboy

just put in the appeal, on-line, and on the appeal page it states

"All appeals are genuinely perused and the decision to accept or reject and appeal is based on the evidence supplied. As soon as we receive an appeal from you, the charge is put on hold pending a decision. All appeals are responded to but please allow 28 days for a reply. If you do not receive a reply within 28 days please contact our office who will advise further – DO NOT consider an appeal successful if you do not receive a response. If you are unsatisfied with the outcome of your appeal to us, you will be given the opportunity for independent arbitration via POPLA. Full details of this independent appeals service will be sent to you should your appeal be unsuccessful."

Looks like they will have to offer the POPLA route or will look even worse for them :-)

will update as we hear back and thanks again for everyones help!

bennjiboy

As expected, appeal rejected. No offer to go to POPLA even though it is stated on their website we would get a POPLA appeal!

Whats the next stage as I understand the appeals process is a waste of time :-)

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your letter of appeal against the Penalty Charge Notice issued by us on 11.12.2015
Having carefully considered the evidence provided by you we have decided to reject your appeal for the following reasons:

The vehicle was captured via CCTV footage whilst stationary loading/unloading whilst in clear view of a warning sign stating “No Stopping/Loading/Unloading In This Area”, see attached. There are signs around the entire airport complex including at the entrance that clearly state the parking restrictions in place. Security at the airport is paramount and any vehicle captured loading or unloading in anywhere other than the official collection/drop off car park is issued a notice by the CCTV operator.

The creditor is clearly named on all correspondence as being UK Parking Patrol. Our company logo appears on all letterheads and we are clearly named on the payment slip as being the creditor to whom the driver/keeper should make a payment to.

The land is subject to byelaws, to which we are contracted to enforce. The penalty was issued under these byelaws and not contract law.

As the land is privately owned the Road Traffic Act is not applicable.

We are in possession of a signed agreement with the landowner. We are unable to supply you with a copy of this agreement due to Data Protection but a copy will be produced should the case go to court/IAS.

The charge is not issued under contract law and is not an attempt to recover damages for breaching a contract. The charge is an alternative to prosecution in the Magistrates Court for breaching the byelaws. As a result of the charge being permitted under the byelaws Genuine Pre-estimate of loss is not a consideration which is relevant.

Therefore the penalty was correctly incurred and full CCTV footage of the contravention will be produced should the case go to court.

You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure and have a number of options:

1. Pay the Parking Charge Notice at the prevailing price of £60 within 14 days. Please note that after this time you will lose the chance to pay the discounted rate and the full amount of £100 will become payable.

2. If you believe this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS). Please be advised that if you opt for independent arbitration of your case and are unsuccessful, the full amount of £100 will become payable. In order to appeal, you will need your parking charge number, your vehicle registration and the date the charge was originally issued. Appeals must be submitted to the IAS within 21 days of the date of this letter. Please visit https://www.theias.org for full details.

3. If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.

The Independent Appeals Service (https://www.theIAS.org) provides an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for disputes of this type. As you have complied with our internal appeals procedure you may use, and we will engage with, the IAS Standard Appeals Service providing you lodge an appeal to them within 21 days of this rejection.

How to Pay:
YOU ARE REQUIRED TO PAY £60 WITHIN 14 DAYS FROM THE ISSUE OF THIS CORRESPONDENCE. CHEQUES/POSTAL ORDERS SHOULD BE CROSSED AND MADE PAYABLE TO:

The UK Parking Patrol Office and posted to:

Coupon-mad

Your options are already shown in post #3 of the NEWBIES thread, which I think still shows a link to the Parking Prankster's advice. Also a similar situation is discussed here with further ideas from salmosalaris based upon the Prankster's advice:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5387054

Or just ignore and come back if they try actual court papers.

Please promise us never to post about the DRPlus and Zenith debt letter chain...pretty please! We never want to hear again about that tediousness.

bennjiboy

thanks for this, read all the info and will decide whether to appeal or not!

one question...UKPPO state on their website the below saying that POPLA will be used, but no mention of that in their response. Should I hold on to this for if/when they try court or should I respond to them demanding to be given POPLA route?

"All appeals are genuinely perused and the decision to accept or reject and appeal is based on the evidence supplied. As soon as we receive an appeal from you, the charge is put on hold pending a decision. All appeals are responded to but please allow 28 days for a reply. If you do not receive a reply within 28 days please contact our office who will advise further – DO NOT consider an appeal successful if you do not receive a response. If you are unsatisfied with the outcome of your appeal to us, you will be given the opportunity for independent arbitration via POPLA. Full details of this independent appeals service will be sent to you should your appeal be unsuccessful."

Quentin

The quote from their website is out of date.


It's not a winner for you.


They have written personally to you confirming you can go to IAS.

Coupon-mad

So just ignore it from now on and come back if you get a small claim later (unheard of for UKPPO).