Fail to put ticket on dashboard witin 5min (UKPC)

enfield_freddy

have you received written communication BY POST from UKPC? , addressed to yourself with your FULL name AND ADDRESS?

Coupon-mad

You've appealed a UKPC charge even though all advice here tells you that UKPC can't get your address at the moment as they are banned by the DVLA? I hope not.

The_Deep

We are at cross purposes here. There is no compulsion for any PPC to issue an NTK without first contacting the DVLA, whether it is valid under POFA or not is another matter. If the RK has already admitted to being the driver then he can be pursed as such.

You may say that I am splitting hairs, but I spent five years drafting Treaties in the Legal Department of the FCO, where even a misplaced comma could be fatal. Accuracy in the written word is in my D.N.A.

salmosalaris

Who mentioned the driver identifying him/herself ? In that situation POFA would be irrelevant and unnecessary .

enfield_freddy

salmosalaris wrote: »

Who mentioned the driver identifying him/herself ? In that situation POFA would be irrelevant and unnecessary .

have you received written communication BY POST from UKPC? , addressed to yourself with your FULL name AND ADDRESS?

Umkomaas

The_Deep wrote: »

We are at cross purposes here. There is no compulsion for any PPC to issue an NTK without first contacting the DVLA, whether it is valid under POFA or not is another matter. If the RK has already admitted to being the driver then he can be pursed as such.

You may say that I am splitting hairs, but I spent five years drafting Treaties in the Legal Department of the FCO, where even a misplaced comma could be fatal. Accuracy in the written word is in my D.N.A.

Oh dear, perhaps not today TD.

How do you get 'pursed'? Is it a bit like getting 'handbagged'? :rotfl:

Quentin

Umkomaas wrote: »

Oh dear, perhaps not today TD. ....

Maybe his DNA gets Sundays off to detox and all those treaties were all written on weekdays.


Irony irony.

nigelbb

The_Deep wrote: »

We are at cross purposes here. There is no compulsion for any PPC to issue an NTK without first contacting the DVLA, whether it is valid under POFA or not is another matter. If the RK has already admitted to being the driver then he can be pursed as such.

You may say that I am splitting hairs, but I spent five years drafting Treaties in the Legal Department of the FCO, where even a misplaced comma could be fatal. Accuracy in the written word is in my D.N.A.

You are not splitting hairs you are giving wrong information & misleading advice. The OP appealed as keeper & did not name the driver. Without access to the DVLA the PPC cannot obtain RK details. They cannot issue a valid NTK if they don't obtain details from the DVLA even if the identity of the keeper is volunteered they must still get the details from the DVLA within the prescribed timescale.

As you obviously have not read #10 I will include yet again the relevant paragraphs from schedule 4 of POFA 2012. To enforce keeper liability three conditions must be met. Firstly that there is a relevant obligation i.e. that the driver owes an unpaid parking charge & that it was relevant land. Secondly that the NTD & NTK are issued correctly & thirdly as per Paragraph 13 below that the keeper details were obtained from the DVLA. Without all three there is no keeper liability so the PPC can huff & puff all they like their only claim is against the driver (who in this case they do not know). Why do you think that the current advice as per the Sticky after receiving a windscreen ticket is to appeal at around day 20t as the keeper?

11 (1) The third condition is that:
(a) the creditor (or a person acting for or on behalf of the creditor) has made an application for the keeper’s details in relation to the period of parking to which the unpaid parking charges relate;
(b) the application was made during the relevant period for the purposes of paragraph 8(4) (where a notice to driver has been given) or 9(4) (where no notice to driver has been given);
(c) the information sought by the application is provided by the Secretary of State to the applicant.
(2) The third condition only applies if the vehicle is a registered vehicle.
(3) In this paragraph “application for the keeper’s details” means an application for the following information to be provided to the applicant by virtue of regulations made under section 22(1)(c) of the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994:
(a) the name of the registered keeper of the vehicle during the period of parking to which the unpaid parking charges relate; and
(b) the address of that person as it appears on the register (or, if that person has ceased to be the registered keeper, as it last appeared on the register).

The_Deep

You are not splitting hairs you are giving wrong information & misleading advice. The OP appealed as keeper & did not name the driver.

As I said Nigel, my comments were non-specific to this post.

They cannot issue a valid NTK if they don't obtain details from the DVLA.

I know that, please show me where I used the word "valid". The remainder of your post is superfluous. If you wish to continue this futile exchange, please read what I actually wrote, not what you think I wrote.

nigelbb

The_Deep wrote: »

If you wish to continue this futile exchange, please read what I actually wrote, not what you think I wrote.

The exchange is only futile because you are arguing black is white in the face of the evidence.

Here is what you wrote:-

The_Deep wrote: »

Are you saying that PPCs must obtain your details from the DVLA, even though you have supplied them yourself? That seems to be what CM is saying.

YES! YES! YES! for about the fourth time. To invoke keeper liability the PPC must obtain keeper details from the DVLA. It doesn't matter if they think they already know the identity of the keeper because the keeper has contacted them or because the name of the company is on the side of the vehicle. They MUST obtain keeper details from the DVLA or there is no keeper liability. On a practical rather than purely legal point the PPC has no proof of the identity of the keeper unless they obtain keeper details from the DVLA as anyone could claim to be the keeper & appeal a windscreen ticket.