Being a Kleeneze Distributor

kleeneze.itworks

John_Jackson wrote:

Yes, I could. As I pointed out though, I used kleeneze's own published accounts so, hopefully, I can't be accused of making the figures up

£395,043 divided by 432 = £914.45 per person in turnover.

£914/30*7 (to make it weekly) = £213.37 per week in turnover.

£213.37 in turnover (gross sales) at 20% commission = £42.67 a week in income before expenses.

OK, I will accept that you have a highflying group that earns twice the average that others earn. That of course means that to keep the average (given by kleeneze’s own figures), other groups must be performing worse than average.

At £42.67 a week (your own figures) are you sure?

Is that an appeal to be “open minded”?

So, you have 432 active members and you have 100 new members join every month. How many do you lose every month to keep this figure of 432? I strongly suspect that you lose around 100 members a month too.

I fear that you’re right. At least skeptics are trying to promulgate the truth though, and some people will listen.

Not from the figures you’ve just quoted they aren’t.

You have 432 active members earning £42.67 a week on average. I’m quoting your own figures.

Your claim doesn’t add up.

I agree the average figures give a distorted picture. Most of the money earned in MLM goes straight up the pyramid to the top. I did point out however that: 90% lose, 9% break even, 1% gain. That’s because of the pyramid system that MLM is based on.

I’ll agree with you there.

Not only that, it has undergone exponential growth in all that time and yet still manages to be small enough to promise riches through exponential growth in the future!

So self-employment, make a fortune from your kitchen table, you reap what you sow, but don’t work more than 37 hours a week. :rotfl:

Talk about re-spouting propaganda.

im not here to say kleeneze is the best biz in the world..there are a lot of -people out there.i mean how long did it take you to get all those facts then put it on to this link,for what ?????.kleeneze is a great biz a big thank you for all it, this company has done for me these last few years.also you keep going on about pyramid selling ,all companys are shaped in this way ....and for you saying the main man at the top creams off the profit how is that possible... at the end of the day kleeneze power comes from the public,the people buying regular from the door from an agent.in a pyramid you buy your stock in bulk and add so much so buy the time it gets to were its going its trebled in price ...kleeneze cuts all the middle men out and we get a statment to say how much we earned thats availble to every 1 proof of earnings.so again it sok been a exspert ...but please im not claiming to no every thing about kleeneze i just no more about it than yourself because i do it, and good money for this biz .keep your figs coming let see who get the righ info the the people .kleeneze is worth doing.... thanks for input .....

John_Jackson_2

_kleeneze.itworks wrote:

im not here to say kleeneze is the best biz in the world..

Well it would be difficult to back that claim up.

_kleeneze.itworks wrote:

i mean how long did it take you to get all those facts then put it on to this link,for what ?

It took a couple of minutes to find, a few minutes to work out the figures, and 10 minutes to type it up.

That’s how quick and easy it is to find out the truth.

For what? Well, I want to show that an MLM is nothing more than a glorified “get rich quick” scheme, and I want to show, with evidence and sound reasoning, why I’ve come to that conclusion. Others can then make up their own minds. I just don’t like to see people buying into a scam.

I use the method of skepticism for all claims. If someone makes a claim I’ll say fair enough but I’ll doubt it and look for evidence. If there is evidence to back up the claim, I’ll accept it. If there is no evidence to back up the claim, I’ll reject it.

People on here have made some pretty extravagant claims about how much they’re earning: £80,000 a year; £20,000 a month; dozens and dozens making £2,000+ a month etc. Looking at Kleeneze’s own published figures however, shows that there’s no evidence to back up these claims.

People who spout out the propaganda of MLM and make unreal, unsubstantiated claims are proponents of the scam; however, they are also victims of the scam. We need to understand that MLM is like a virus of the mind. Once infected, people will chase the unobtainable dream of wealth, often working at it for years with little or nothing in return whilst awaiting the “breakthrough”. Think of how valuable such people are to the parent company. It’s virtually slave labour.

MLM – not for me thank you.

Lawbag_2

as has already been pointed out, the real money is made through recruitment - as in you have to "pay to join", and then create your own downstream, which provides profits at a later date.

John_Jackson_2

Lawbag wrote:

as has already been pointed out, the real money is made through recruitment - as in you have to "pay to join", and then create your own downstream, which provides profits at a later date.

That is precisely where the deception lies in MLM. That's the "pyramid" aspect of it.

In reality, these huge downlines never materialise. see: The truth about the downline

kleeneze.itworks

John_Jackson wrote:

Well it would be difficult to back that claim up.

It took a couple of minutes to find, a few minutes to work out the figures, and 10 minutes to type it up.

That’s how quick and easy it is to find out the truth.

For what? Well, I want to show that an MLM is nothing more than a glorified “get rich quick” scheme, and I want to show, with evidence and sound reasoning, why I’ve come to that conclusion. Others can then make up their own minds. I just don’t like to see people buying into a scam.

I use the method of skepticism for all claims. If someone makes a claim I’ll say fair enough but I’ll doubt it and look for evidence. If there is evidence to back up the claim, I’ll accept it. If there is no evidence to back up the claim, I’ll reject it.

People on here have made some pretty extravagant claims about how much they’re earning: £80,000 a year; £20,000 a month; dozens and dozens making £2,000+ a month etc. Looking at Kleeneze’s own published figures however, shows that there’s no evidence to back up these claims.

People who spout out the propaganda of MLM and make unreal, unsubstantiated claims are proponents of the scam; however, they are also victims of the scam. We need to understand that MLM is like a virus of the mind. Once infected, people will chase the unobtainable dream of wealth, often working at it for years with little or nothing in return whilst awaiting the “breakthrough”. Think of how valuable such people are to the parent company. It’s virtually slave labour.

MLM – not for me thank you.

i think what your saying is that im under some kind of spell,and i dont no what im doing,and some one is making me do kleeneze...?

i have a good job ,but work long hours and have a family(im sorry if this doesnt make sence to people its a bit diff doing this on my mobile).

ive known of kleeneze for over 10years+ ,.
i was one of the 1st 10 people to join kleeneze.
i joined up i think back then was £45.00 + free brief case with a big z on it...
the only reason i joined kleeneze was the fact the company i was in la rome int(fake purfumes and stuff)..went to the wall ...
at the time i didnt no what network or mlm was...
back then i didnt have a clue about down line ,royality incomes ,and big cheques and stuff...
but what i did notice the amount of people who got up at meetings for la rome "saying im earning £££££££".
i never once thort to ask for proof ...
the same people joined kleeneze when that company went bump ...and they said the same as the old company "im earning ££££££££££ "..

ive been in kleeneze 3 times now ...
and the reason ive been in kleeneze 3 times is money ...
the bottom line is money....
this opp has got me out some money matters ..
but now ive studied mlm and network marketing ..
there are banks,new launch products use this method of marketing ..
and if any of your claims are true send them to the DTI,DSA,and watchdog that tv program ..
im not under any spell .i would like to say kleeneze.itworks

ezekon

As a Sponsor can you be prosecuted for misleading or not supplying information?

The Netherlands and other European countries have far stricter rules regarding starting and operating a business. These rules also apply to anyone operating as a self-employed Kleeneze distributor.

The Netherlands.
The Netherlands is possibly one of the most regulated countries in Europe if no the World to operate a business.

The Netherlands has very strict and clearly defined laws and regulations that apply to all businesses and self-employed persons. Unlike the UK everyone starting a business must comply with these laws.

Any-one who is self-employed (Kleeneze’s definition: “Onafhankelijke Distributeur” section 3.1 Algemene Voorwaarden Kleeneze ) MUST comply to the following laws before starting to trade.

1. Register the business name and activity with the Dutch Kamer van Koophandel (KvK).
Before any person in the Netherlands can operate as a self-employed business they MUST register with their local KvK before they can legally handel.

2. Registration for BTW (UK VAT).
All businesses, this includes self-employed and part-time, MUST register with their local tax office to obtain a BTW nummer. Unlike the UK there is NO turnover limit under which you do not have to register. Once registered a small business or self-employed person may ask to be forgoten from BTW administration IF their business activities generate less than €1.345 to be paid in BTW per year. Be warned though, exceed this amount in the year and you become liable for all the BTW for the whole year! Below are links to the Nederlands tax Internet site explaining who must register and the Small business rule.

a. Wanneer bent u ondernemer voor de BTW?
http://www.belastingdienst.nl/zakelijk/ondernemerworden/ondernemerworden-07.html
b.
Kleineondernemersregeling
http://www.belastingdienst.nl/zakelijk/omzetbelasting/ob02/ob02-125.html#P1522_155547
NOTE:
The above are verplicht (must be done) and should be completed before any business or self-employed person begins trading. There are NO exceptions or grace periods.
• NOT registering with KvK can result in a criminal prosecution.
• NOT registering for BTW can result in criminal prosecutions for tax evasion and tax fraud.


Colportagewet
Nederlands has a law we call the “Colportagewet” this basically protects consumers from over aggressive house-aan-house and home sales organisations. This requires a business or person to apply to the local Gemeente for a ventvergunning in the area where the house-on-house activity is to be done. The Gemeente can specify where and when the house-on-house activity may take place. They can also limit the number of licences issued. To apply you must supply a number of documents including KvK uitrekesel, police report of good conduct and others depending on Gemeente requirements. All this costs adds extra costs to running a Kleeneze distributor.

This law is enacted by the Ministerie van Economische Zaken, and policed by the local Gemeente as a bye-law. Meaning each Gemeente makes the rules and fees under which they will issue a licence.
ministerie van Economische Zaken - Colportagewet
Colportagewet. In deze wet zijn bepalingen opgenomen die gelden bij kopen aan de
deur, op zogenaamde house-parties en busreisjes met verkoopdoeleinden. ...
https://www.ez.nl/content.jsp?objectid=17257 - 11k - Cached - Similar pages
ministerie van Economische Zaken - regeling-2257
675/318 WJA, gehoord de Commissie Uitvoeringsvoorschriften Colportagewet, ...
Dit besluit kan worden aangehaald als: Uitvoeringsbesluit Colportagewet. ...
https://www.ez.nl/content.jsp?objectid=17293 - 14k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from https://www.ez.nl ]
http://www.kvk.nl/artikel/artikel.asp?artikelID=39468

At the present time there is some confusion if Nederland distributors require this vergunning or not.

We have heard from Kleeneze distributors that have registered with the KvK, they have been advised by the KvK they require a vergunning before distributing catalogues. Anonymous checking with some Gemeentes has confirmed this advice. After describing Kleeneze activities they have advised a ventvergunning is necessary. The reason give is, catalogues are distributed to the same houses on a regular cycle and therefore seen as possibly aggressive sales. The reason for the law, if a business is causing a problem for consumers the vergunning can be withdrawn, stopping the activity. There are cases on the Internet of people selling goods for schools and charities being prosecuted.

Kleeneze has circulated a letter saying this is not the case for Kleeneze distributors. The letter is supposed to originate from a Dutch ministry. But, there is no ministry name, no department, no contact person and no reference to any law or artikel that exempts Kleeneze activities. Therefore it cannot be taken as authentic, meaningful, or used in defence if prosecuted.

Beware prosecution under this law is a criminal offence. There is a high possibility people living in Nederland on a Verblijsvegunning may be refused renewal of their Verblijvegunning on the grounds they have a criminal record.

Conclusions
Kleeneze (there lawyers) are aware, obviously understand and know all the laws and rules that apply to operating a Kleeneze Distributorship in Nederland, but have chosen NOT to inform the distributors.
Why make this claim!
1. The “Algemene Voorwaarden Kleeneze” is in Dutch, very detailed and covers almost every aspect to protect Kleeneze. This can only have been created by people with an intimate knowledge of Dutch law and Dutch legal language (i.e. lawyers).
2. The Kleeneze business manual makes no mention that an “Onafhankelijke Distributeur” (independent [self-employed] distributors) must register with the KvK or for BTW. These are Nederland laws that are NON-negotiable and apply to the whole of the Nederlands.
3. Kleeneze has set up 2 invoicing systems for Dutch distributors;
o One for non-registered BTW distributors.
Non-registered BTW distributors are invoiced through Kleeneze BV and charged BTW on all goods purchased. As the distributor is not registered for BTW this makes the distributor the end consumer. Should a non-BTW registered distributor sell any of the products for profit they become liable for the BTW collected on the profit.
o One for BTW registered distributors.
BTW registered distributors are invoiced from Kleeneze Ltd., and do not pay VAT (BTW) as they are classed as importing the products from another EU land. They then collect the full 19% BTW from the end customer and pay this to the Nederland tax office.
o So What Does This Mean?
There is no reason to create the 2 different invoicing chains if Kleeneze were not protecting themselves and in sighting distributors to break the law. One of these invoices chains is not necessary. BTW registered distributors could be invoiced from Kleeneze BV and pay the Nederland BTW charged on goods (as with any other goods bought in Nederland). As a BTW registered distributor they can claim back any BTW paid on products. Add to this, it is Nederland law that all self-employed persons must registered for BTW (it is not legal, in Nederlands, to be self-employed and not registered for BTW). Therefore Kleeneze should not recognise or supply a distributor that is not BTW registered as they are not a legally self-employed distributor.
So why the two invoicing systemen?
Please clarify a. u.b. we’re interested.

• The True Cost of Starting a Kleeneze Distributorship
So why would Kleeneze not be prepared to offer this information?
o One; they did not do there market research and do not understand the Nederland legal requirements. Very unlikely and this has already been answered in the beginning of the Conclusions (Algemene Voorwaarden Kleeneze – written by lawyers).
o Two; to hide the true cost of starting and operating a Kleeneze distributorship. The UK small business environment is very simple, requiring only that you register with the tax authorities. As long as the turnover remains below the VAT threshold there is no need to register for VAT. Compare this against the Nederland legal requirements.
 Kleeneze Business Kit €25.00
 Catalogues (200) €100.00
 Registration KvK per year plus Uitreksel €75.00
 §CRK Per year €65.00
 §Ventvergunning per year (per Geemente) €60.00 to €150.00
 Minimum start up costs Total €325.00
This does not include operating kosts and is equal the profit on a turnover of €2241.00.
o Notes §:
 Registering with the KvK also means you will have to pay a fee to the CRK.
 One ventvergunning required from each Gemeente catalogues are distributed in. Example: Deliver catalogues in towns each town is in 4 separate Gemeentes requires 4 separate vergunnings. The fee and conditions also vary between gemeente. En gemeente like Utrecht may refuse to issue a vergunning to everyone of the Kleeneze distributors.

As A Sponsor Should This Concern YOU!!
IT SHOULD!
WHY?
Taken from the Internet!!!!
The EU and many of the EC countries have or are formulating laws to protect consumers from unscrupulous and fraudulent MLM and Network marketing companies. To discourage bad practice and misleading information new laws and agreements between EU countries are being create to allow prosecution up through the sponsorship chains and across boarders all the way back to the origin.

Germany is leading this and has done so for many years. They have in the past arrested hundreds of sponsors and thrown them into jail. They have recently prosecuted and forced MLM organisations to pay back millions of Euros to the distributors.

Extracts from the Internet:
NEW GERMAN MLM LAW
Aug 2004 – This month Germany changed their MLM law to tighten up against pyramid schemes by further defining Progression Driven Customer Marketing. This is in § 16 of the UWG’s (Commercial Code). Roughly translated § 16 UWG means “Punishable Advertising.” False income claims = imprisonment 2 years or level 1 fines (steep). (2) Promising to build a pyramid scheme as part of advertisement = imprisonment 2 years and fines at the very highest rate.

Germany court shut down MLM activity
Sept 2004 – The Regional Court, Hamburg, Germany shut down MLM activity by EVORA
The “snowball like” marketing system has been forbidden. No ads for full or part time work while the participant has to pay for anything (Reminds us of Equinox in the U.S. !). They have to pay all the money back to all the participants (estimated at $2.5 million)

Note:
Distributors advertising or thinking of advertising in Germany beware what you put in your recruitment ads or say to prospects.

These prosecutions have been based on many factors including, exaggerated claims for income, excessive training costs, payment for goods and materials, not supplying complete information, encouraging participants to break local laws, knowingly or unknowingly.

Unfortunately for sponsors “ignorance of the law is no excuse” even when working across boarders. It is possible to find yourself being prosecuted because the documentation supplied by Kleeneze does not include a vital a piece of information.

kleeneze.itworks

ezekon wrote:

As a Sponsor can you be prosecuted for misleading or not supplying information?

The Netherlands and other European countries have far stricter rules regarding starting and operating a business. These rules also apply to anyone operating as a self-employed Kleeneze distributor.

The Netherlands.
The Netherlands is possibly one of the most regulated countries in Europe if no the World to operate a business.

The Netherlands has very strict and clearly defined laws and regulations that apply to all businesses and self-employed persons. Unlike the UK everyone starting a business must comply with these laws.

Any-one who is self-employed (Kleeneze’s definition: “Onafhankelijke Distributeur” section 3.1 Algemene Voorwaarden Kleeneze ) MUST comply to the following laws before starting to trade.

1. Register the business name and activity with the Dutch Kamer van Koophandel (KvK).
Before any person in the Netherlands can operate as a self-employed business they MUST register with their local KvK before they can legally handel.

2. Registration for BTW (UK VAT).
All businesses, this includes self-employed and part-time, MUST register with their local tax office to obtain a BTW nummer. Unlike the UK there is NO turnover limit under which you do not have to register. Once registered a small business or self-employed person may ask to be forgoten from BTW administration IF their business activities generate less than €1.345 to be paid in BTW per year. Be warned though, exceed this amount in the year and you become liable for all the BTW for the whole year! Below are links to the Nederlands tax Internet site explaining who must register and the Small business rule.

a. Wanneer bent u ondernemer voor de BTW?
http://www.belastingdienst.nl/zakelijk/ondernemerworden/ondernemerworden-07.html
b.
Kleineondernemersregeling
http://www.belastingdienst.nl/zakelijk/omzetbelasting/ob02/ob02-125.html#P1522_155547
NOTE:
The above are verplicht (must be done) and should be completed before any business or self-employed person begins trading. There are NO exceptions or grace periods.
• NOT registering with KvK can result in a criminal prosecution.
• NOT registering for BTW can result in criminal prosecutions for tax evasion and tax fraud.


Colportagewet
Nederlands has a law we call the “Colportagewet” this basically protects consumers from over aggressive house-aan-house and home sales organisations. This requires a business or person to apply to the local Gemeente for a ventvergunning in the area where the house-on-house activity is to be done. The Gemeente can specify where and when the house-on-house activity may take place. They can also limit the number of licences issued. To apply you must supply a number of documents including KvK uitrekesel, police report of good conduct and others depending on Gemeente requirements. All this costs adds extra costs to running a Kleeneze distributor.

This law is enacted by the Ministerie van Economische Zaken, and policed by the local Gemeente as a bye-law. Meaning each Gemeente makes the rules and fees under which they will issue a licence.
ministerie van Economische Zaken - Colportagewet
Colportagewet. In deze wet zijn bepalingen opgenomen die gelden bij kopen aan de
deur, op zogenaamde house-parties en busreisjes met verkoopdoeleinden. ...
https://www.ez.nl/content.jsp?objectid=17257 - 11k - Cached - Similar pages
ministerie van Economische Zaken - regeling-2257
675/318 WJA, gehoord de Commissie Uitvoeringsvoorschriften Colportagewet, ...
Dit besluit kan worden aangehaald als: Uitvoeringsbesluit Colportagewet. ...
https://www.ez.nl/content.jsp?objectid=17293 - 14k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from https://www.ez.nl ]
http://www.kvk.nl/artikel/artikel.asp?artikelID=39468

At the present time there is some confusion if Nederland distributors require this vergunning or not.

We have heard from Kleeneze distributors that have registered with the KvK, they have been advised by the KvK they require a vergunning before distributing catalogues. Anonymous checking with some Gemeentes has confirmed this advice. After describing Kleeneze activities they have advised a ventvergunning is necessary. The reason give is, catalogues are distributed to the same houses on a regular cycle and therefore seen as possibly aggressive sales. The reason for the law, if a business is causing a problem for consumers the vergunning can be withdrawn, stopping the activity. There are cases on the Internet of people selling goods for schools and charities being prosecuted.

Kleeneze has circulated a letter saying this is not the case for Kleeneze distributors. The letter is supposed to originate from a Dutch ministry. But, there is no ministry name, no department, no contact person and no reference to any law or artikel that exempts Kleeneze activities. Therefore it cannot be taken as authentic, meaningful, or used in defence if prosecuted.

Beware prosecution under this law is a criminal offence. There is a high possibility people living in Nederland on a Verblijsvegunning may be refused renewal of their Verblijvegunning on the grounds they have a criminal record.

Conclusions
Kleeneze (there lawyers) are aware, obviously understand and know all the laws and rules that apply to operating a Kleeneze Distributorship in Nederland, but have chosen NOT to inform the distributors.
Why make this claim!
1. The “Algemene Voorwaarden Kleeneze” is in Dutch, very detailed and covers almost every aspect to protect Kleeneze. This can only have been created by people with an intimate knowledge of Dutch law and Dutch legal language (i.e. lawyers).
2. The Kleeneze business manual makes no mention that an “Onafhankelijke Distributeur” (independent [self-employed] distributors) must register with the KvK or for BTW. These are Nederland laws that are NON-negotiable and apply to the whole of the Nederlands.
3. Kleeneze has set up 2 invoicing systems for Dutch distributors;
o One for non-registered BTW distributors.
Non-registered BTW distributors are invoiced through Kleeneze BV and charged BTW on all goods purchased. As the distributor is not registered for BTW this makes the distributor the end consumer. Should a non-BTW registered distributor sell any of the products for profit they become liable for the BTW collected on the profit.
o One for BTW registered distributors.
BTW registered distributors are invoiced from Kleeneze Ltd., and do not pay VAT (BTW) as they are classed as importing the products from another EU land. They then collect the full 19% BTW from the end customer and pay this to the Nederland tax office.
o So What Does This Mean?
There is no reason to create the 2 different invoicing chains if Kleeneze were not protecting themselves and in sighting distributors to break the law. One of these invoices chains is not necessary. BTW registered distributors could be invoiced from Kleeneze BV and pay the Nederland BTW charged on goods (as with any other goods bought in Nederland). As a BTW registered distributor they can claim back any BTW paid on products. Add to this, it is Nederland law that all self-employed persons must registered for BTW (it is not legal, in Nederlands, to be self-employed and not registered for BTW). Therefore Kleeneze should not recognise or supply a distributor that is not BTW registered as they are not a legally self-employed distributor.
So why the two invoicing systemen?
Please clarify a. u.b. we’re interested.

• The True Cost of Starting a Kleeneze Distributorship
So why would Kleeneze not be prepared to offer this information?
o One; they did not do there market research and do not understand the Nederland legal requirements. Very unlikely and this has already been answered in the beginning of the Conclusions (Algemene Voorwaarden Kleeneze – written by lawyers).
o Two; to hide the true cost of starting and operating a Kleeneze distributorship. The UK small business environment is very simple, requiring only that you register with the tax authorities. As long as the turnover remains below the VAT threshold there is no need to register for VAT. Compare this against the Nederland legal requirements.
 Kleeneze Business Kit €25.00
 Catalogues (200) €100.00
 Registration KvK per year plus Uitreksel €75.00
 §CRK Per year €65.00
 §Ventvergunning per year (per Geemente) €60.00 to €150.00
 Minimum start up costs Total €325.00
This does not include operating kosts and is equal the profit on a turnover of €2241.00.
o Notes §:
 Registering with the KvK also means you will have to pay a fee to the CRK.
 One ventvergunning required from each Gemeente catalogues are distributed in. Example: Deliver catalogues in towns each town is in 4 separate Gemeentes requires 4 separate vergunnings. The fee and conditions also vary between gemeente. En gemeente like Utrecht may refuse to issue a vergunning to everyone of the Kleeneze distributors.

As A Sponsor Should This Concern YOU!!
IT SHOULD!
WHY?
Taken from the Internet!!!!
The EU and many of the EC countries have or are formulating laws to protect consumers from unscrupulous and fraudulent MLM and Network marketing companies. To discourage bad practice and misleading information new laws and agreements between EU countries are being create to allow prosecution up through the sponsorship chains and across boarders all the way back to the origin.

Germany is leading this and has done so for many years. They have in the past arrested hundreds of sponsors and thrown them into jail. They have recently prosecuted and forced MLM organisations to pay back millions of Euros to the distributors.

Extracts from the Internet:
NEW GERMAN MLM LAW
Aug 2004 – This month Germany changed their MLM law to tighten up against pyramid schemes by further defining Progression Driven Customer Marketing. This is in § 16 of the UWG’s (Commercial Code). Roughly translated § 16 UWG means “Punishable Advertising.” False income claims = imprisonment 2 years or level 1 fines (steep). (2) Promising to build a pyramid scheme as part of advertisement = imprisonment 2 years and fines at the very highest rate.

Germany court shut down MLM activity
Sept 2004 – The Regional Court, Hamburg, Germany shut down MLM activity by EVORA
The “snowball like” marketing system has been forbidden. No ads for full or part time work while the participant has to pay for anything (Reminds us of Equinox in the U.S. !). They have to pay all the money back to all the participants (estimated at $2.5 million)

Note:
Distributors advertising or thinking of advertising in Germany beware what you put in your recruitment ads or say to prospects.

These prosecutions have been based on many factors including, exaggerated claims for income, excessive training costs, payment for goods and materials, not supplying complete information, encouraging participants to break local laws, knowingly or unknowingly.

Unfortunately for sponsors “ignorance of the law is no excuse” even when working across boarders. It is possible to find yourself being prosecuted because the documentation supplied by Kleeneze does not include a vital a piece of information.

you no your stuff and info like that is top draw..
i did not no any of this and have printed it off ..
after all i dont want to be thrown in jail...
ps i still dont think kleeneze is a con ..

like many companys before kleeneze the bigger they get the more attention they get
and sum companys are there own downfall by not sticking to rule and regs..
i hope kleeneze keeps on doing whats it doing and allows me to keep earning this part time income ..

Lawbag_2

Im intrigued as to why you went with Kleeneze 3 times?

kleeneze.itworks

Lawbag wrote:

Im intrigued as to why you went with Kleeneze 3 times?

i went into kleeneze 3 times because i was looking for extra money(never even hurd of mlm or networking)at the time.
back when i 1st joined your cheque got passed down line and most time by the time it got to you there was nothing left /all it took was 1 person ,say to be overdrawn in there bank account and the money was gone .
it was very very hard 10 years ago .
mind you good on the 1z who stuck it out it was worth it.
me i just couldnt get moving with the thing .so i started my on biz up so i thort.
working full time and starting a biz up just didnt mix..so i stayed in my job(if only)..
2nd time i was blown away by big cheques and as you do ,been in it b4 i thort why not
got myself out of some dept then just stoped doing it (i was doing ok but not great)
this time ive realy studied the mlm side got loads and load of books on it and tapes and im just learning from past mistakes and giving it my best shot i earn about £500- £650 for about 15-20 hrs per 4weeks it pays my c/tax and morgage ,and ive got my wage to spend works out ok..

Ray-Dorco

Hello Ezekon,

No, a sponsor cannot be prosecuted because there's no misleading or hiding information involved. Also some of your conclusions are incorrect.

But before I will explain this, let me introduce myself: my name is Ray and I'm one of the Dutch Gold distributors in Kleeneze. We have started last year September and have, besides building a great and growing team, done our homework in terms of the rules and regulations. Because within the MLM business it's crucial that you know all the ins and outs of the company, the concept, the pay plan and the local authorities (the Netherlands).

1. you're right in saying that in order to start a company one would have to register at the KvK and for the BTW. However, you decide yourself when you enrol the Kleeneze program whether you start your own company or not. I agree that after a certain period it has it's advantages to start your own company. This is exactly the reason why Kleeneze operates 2 invoice systems.

BTW issues
If the distributor has a registered company and has supplied it's BTW number to Kleeneze it receives the goods excluding the BTW as you were saying. This is of course beneficial for the distributor: instead of paying it to Kleeneze and ask for a return for the Tax Office at the end of a year, you don't have to pay it upfront.

At the end of a tax year you deduct the BTW you've paid to your suppliers (so called "voorbelasting"), for example hotels for meeting rooms, flyers, advertisements etc., from the BTW you've received from your customers. The following rule applies: "Voor sommige ondernemers is er een speciale regeling van toepassing: de kleineondernemersregeling. Toepassing van die regeling kan betekenen dat u minder BTW aan de Belastingdienst hoeft af te dragen. In sommige gevallen hoeft u zelfs helemaal geen BTW meer te betalen."

If you have paid more BTW then you have received you even get BTW refunded from the Tax Office. This happened to me over 2004.

2. You wrote a big piece on the Colportagewet and Ventvergunningen. Both are not applicable for Kleeneze distributors.

The following definition applies for the Colportage:

"De colporteur wordt in de wet omschreven als degene die als ondernemer door persoonlijk bezoek of door aanprijzing van goederen of diensten in een groep een consument tracht te bewegen tot het sluiten van een overeenkomst.
Hier vallen dus onder de vanouds bekende huis aan huis verkoop en ook huiskamerverkoop (houseparty's) en bustochten.
Onder persoonlijk bezoek valt niet het bezoek dat in overwegende mate voortvloeit uit het initiatief van degene die wordt bezocht. Bijvoorbeeld als de klant een verkoper uitnodigt via een bon uit een advertentie."

The Kleeneze distributor doesn't promote physical products to be purchased immediately, like the typical encyclopaedia, but simply he or she invites the potential customer to order products from a catalogue, by filling out an order form without any pressure.

That's also why it's not "Venting".

"Wat is een ventvergunning?

Wanneer u verbruiksartikelen, zoals ijs, koffiewafels, bloemen en dergelijke wilt venten heeft u een vergunning nodig. Het betreft hier dus verkoop langs de deur."

It's not real, physical goods that you offer, but a catalogue to order from. The same as the Wehkamp concept, except the catalogue and goods are being delivered by a distributor instead of the mailman.

3. This means your calculation on the start-up costs is incorrect.

- there's no Ventvergunning necessary
- the KvK registration fee is one off and not yearly

My advice to my team members, whether they have registered as a company or not, is always to keep a good record of all their expenses. They can benefit from it by paying lower taxes over their revenue. One should not forget that with Kleeneze it takes about 6 months to build a customer base and a team. After that the return on investment will grow significantly.

We provide training and support to our group members free of charge.

Best regards,
Ray
The Dorco Group