All Season Tyre advice please....

bigjl

alderpoint wrote: »

Wherever you are, what you need is tyres that:
(a) satisfy the local bobby* and so s/he lets you use the road, and
(b) satisfy the local magistrate* that you were properly equipped for the conditions and hence were not automatically liable for the accident.

*or whatever the local equivalent is called.

Generally (a) has lots of discretion, and if you look like you know what you are doing in the prevailing conditions you'll be okay, whereas (b) is likely to go by the letter of the local law - which is down to their interpretation, and not yours.

Probably more MSE to have proper tyres that prevent the Accident in the first place.

Penny smart, pound foolish comes to mind.

The only thing connecting you vehicle to the road are the tyres.

I certainly won't be going on any long journeys till I got a new set of tyres.

d123

From the review:

Michelin CrossClimate tyres are ‘3 Peaks Mountain Snowflake’ (3PMSF) certified so meet the standard for snow tyres in all European countries.

The introduction of a legal marking related to performance has made the identification of winter tires more simple. The "Alpine" symbol, or the three-peak-mountain with snowflake (‘3PMSF’) came into force in November 2012 under EU Regulation 661/2009 on the Safety of Motor Vehicles.

The 3PMSF can only be used if a tire passes a minimum required performance on snow - the so called “snow grip index”.*

“Mud and Snow” (either marked as M+S, M.S or M&S) has been used to indicate winter tires for many years. Although M+S has a legal definition*, it is not related to minimum performance requirements but has been widely used by tire manufacturers to indicate winter products. M+S remains a permitted marking but while M+S tires have better snow traction than regular tires, they do not necessarily pass the legal snow grip threshold.

http://www.goodyear.eu/corporate_emea/our-responsibilities/road-safety/winter-tire-recognition.jsp

Iceweasel

I've had a few responses to my e-mails.

I asked if Winter tyres had to have the Snowflake symbol to meet current Winter Equipment laws in Germany and Austria or would tyres marked only with M+S be acceptable.

Firstly from Continental.

The marking "Snowflake-on-the-Mountain" identifies winter tyres according to the tyre industry standard which is based on an American Snow tyre definition.

All tyres currently marketed as Continental as Winter tyres have the Snowflake symbol.

All tyres with the Snowflake symbol also have M+S marked on them.

But all tyres with the M+S marking do not necessarily qualify for the Snowflake symbol.

Then from the Austrian Tourist Board a referral to this official Austrian government gv.at site:

https://www.help.gv.at/Portal.Node/hlpd/public/content/6/Seite.0631001.html

It contains this sentence:

According to the law, only tyres which bear the following letters are regarded as winter tyres: "M+S", "M.S." or "M&S". All-season tyres may only be used as winter tyres if they have such an inscription.

No mention of the Snowflake being required at all - and that is the current legal situation - unchanged since jan 2015.

So tyres marked M+S only are fine.

slowpoke_rodriguez

WellKnownSid wrote: »

+1. Apparently much better than all-seasons which are a compromise...

What makes you think these are anything but "All-seasons"?

slowpoke_rodriguez

Iceweasel wrote: »

Then from the Austrian Tourist Board a referral to this official Austrian government gv.at site:

https://www.help.gv.at/Portal.Node/hlpd/public/content/6/Seite.0631001.html

It contains this sentence:

According to the law, only tyres which bear the following letters are regarded as winter tyres: "M+S", "M.S." or "M&S". All-season tyres may only be used as winter tyres if they have such an inscription.

No mention of the Snowflake being required at all - and that is the current legal situation - unchanged since jan 2015.

So tyres marked M+S only are fine.

Except that is for trucks, 3,5t only...

If you're going to be driving in snow you really need tyres with the Mountain/snowflake symbol, even if they're "All season, M+S, or whatever. Otherwise you're wasting your money.

slowpoke_rodriguez

bigjl wrote: »

The only thing a winter tyre or all season tyre needs to display is the snowflake inside the mountain for it to fulfill the legalities for those countries were having tyres for winter.

At least is what I have read on various tyre manufacturer websites, including Nokian.

I will almost certainly be buying the Nokian Weatherproof for the Berlingo.

According to the reviews the Weatherproof is a winter tyre that also operates well in summer.

The new Michelin Cross Climate is apparently a Summer tyres that also operates effectively in the Winter.

I think they are both snowflake/mountain M+S

I've just fitted the Nokians to the Panda. They're quiet and excellent in wet or dry. Being Nokians they will probably be excellent in the winter too.
I can confirm though, that Vredestein Quatrac 3s are excellent in the snow- nesarly as good as the Michelin Alpins they succeeded.

Iceweasel

slowpoke_rodriguez wrote: »

Except that is for trucks, 3,5t only...

If you're going to be driving in snow you really need tyres with the Mountain/snowflake symbol, even if they're "All season, M+S, or whatever. Otherwise you're wasting your money.

No - it's not only referring to trucks over 3.5tonne - it's the legal definition of what constitutes a 'Winter' tyre.

But I completely agree with you as far making sure that any Winter tyres you buy these days should have the Snowflake symbol.

But if, like many people, you already have tyres with only the M+S markings, you don't need to change them for Snowflake ones if you intend driving to the Alpine ski-slopes.

Just get Snowflake ones next time.

slowpoke_rodriguez

Iceweasel wrote: »

But if, like many people, you already have tyres with only the M+S markings, you don't need to change them for Snowflake ones if you intend driving to the Alpine ski-slopes.

Just get Snowflake ones next time.

What makes you think old M+S are OK but new ones aren't?

I'm sorry fella, but you're giving out really dodgy advice here.

Iceweasel

slowpoke_rodriguez wrote: »

What makes you think old M+S are OK but new ones aren't?

I'm sorry fella, but you're giving out really dodgy advice here.

What are you talking about - I didn't say that at all.

If anyone has older M+S tyres they are fine.

If anyone has new M+S they are fine.

But I would advise getting tyres that are marked M+S and also have the Snowflake symbol. I wouldn't buy tyres these days that only had M+S markings.

Isn't that the same message as you wrote here?:

"If you're going to be driving in snow you really need tyres with the Mountain/snowflake symbol, even if they're "All season, M+S, or whatever. Otherwise you're wasting your money."

M+S only would be great for say a 4X4 going off-road at most times of the year - but even 4x4 tyres have a Winter version marked M+S and have the Snowflake.

There is no dodgy advice - I think it's more your misunderstanding of what I wrote.

I hope the above has helped you sort out what I said.

funguy

Does anyone know if any special precautions are needed when changing tyres on a car with a tyre pressure monitoring system in place? Thanks