Tax credits cut petition

Becles

northerntwo1 wrote: »

You are working full time, you cannot do more IMHO. It's tough being a working parent as part of a couple let alone on your own. You will just have to adjust but many out there don't see it as fair, especially as they don't penalise those that aren't giving 100% effort.

That's why I think it's unfair only targetting the ones who have put in the effort to do as much as they can for themselves.

It would have been much fairer to make the cuts for everyone who claims child tax credit, rather than just take it off the working people.

FBaby

zagfles wrote: »

Err.. that's what I said above - it's worth it if you're in a career but we were discussing those at "the bottom", ie earning about NMW when it pays hardly any more than childcare.

But surely even a nmw jobs can be a valuable step up towards a career, especially for young people. Most of the people I work with started at that level, even after uni and each step of the ladder was valuable in helping them get to the next.

Unless you are not interested in ever earning more, I think any job and therefore experience is an investment for the future even if you don't gain from it financially at the time.

I find it very sad that we are encouraging young people not to bother because they are better off on benefits. It's all about immediate gratification rather than encouraging development.

zagfles

FBaby wrote: »

But surely even a nmw jobs can be a valuable step up towards a career, especially for young people. Most of the people I work with started at that level, even after uni and each step of the ladder was valuable in helping them get to the next.

Unless you are not interested in ever earning more, I think any job and therefore experience is an investment for the future even if you don't gain from it financially at the time.

I find it very sad that we are encouraging young people not to bother because they are better off on benefits. It's all about immediate gratification rather than encouraging development.

Or do what my wife did. She was in a low wage supermarket job (NMW didn't exist then but it would have likely been close).

She left the job when we had our first child and in her spare time did part time study for an NVQ which she then used to get a much better paid job once the kids were in school. Never got paid a penny in state subsidy for childcare.

Why should this be denied to single parents? Fair enough once the kids are in school expect them to seek work. But don't force people to dump their babies in childcare to work in a dead end job which pays hardly any more than the childcare costs, as seems to be suggested here.

FBaby

Because unfortunately, nowadays (not trying to age your DW!), getting an NVQ is not a direct door to a better paid job. You don't have the work experience to go with it, you are still facing the same problem that graduate face trying to get their first work experience starting at the bottom.

But don't force people to dump their babies in childcare

And that's the attitude so common to this country that puts so much pressure on government to refrain from making radical changes. Millions of young children attend childcare in most of the developed countries, and yet there is no official evidence that such children have a worse start in life than those who stayed at home until starting school. Of course, it is a luxury for the parent to be at home with their child as long as they can, but to say that it is for the benefit of the child is hiding behind the reality that it is much nicer for the parent and if that luxury is going to be fully paid for, then why not use the privilege.

zagfles

FBaby wrote: »

Because unfortunately, nowadays (not trying to age your DW!), getting an NVQ is not a direct door to a better paid job. You don't have the work experience to go with it, you are still facing the same problem that graduate face trying to get their first work experience starting at the bottom.

Graduates don't start "at the bottom". They start on salaries considerably higher than NMW. http://www.graduates.co.uk/graduate-starting-salaries-in-2013-14/

My wife wanted (and got) a job for which an NVQ was a requirement.

And that's the attitude so common to this country that puts so much pressure on government to refrain from making radical changes. Millions of young children attend childcare in most of the developed countries, and yet there is no official evidence that such children have a worse start in life than those who stayed at home until starting school. Of course, it is a luxury for the parent to be at home with their child as long as they can, but to say that it is for the benefit of the child is hiding behind the reality that it is much nicer for the parent and if that luxury is going to be fully paid for, then why not use the privilege.

If you're going to compare what happens in other countries, then take account of the tax system. In other countries families are generally taxed as families, eg by having transferrable tax allowances, tax allowances for children etc.

Here we have the hypocrisy of a tax system which assesses people as individuals but a benefits system which assesses people as families.

The new transferrable tax allowance is a step the right direction but it's only a tenth of the allowance so is pretty insignificant at the moment (and it only applies to married/CP couples).

The choice we made had nothing to do with finances. It was financially very bad short term, as we had to survive on one income, and one tax allowance, short term, with no benefits other than child benefit.

Government policy since then has been to encourage putting young children in childcare, other than the transferrable tax allowance mentioned above which is a tiny step in the other direction. In other countries, it's more common in general for one of the parents to stay at home with pre-school children.

There's a cost when you have children. Either the cost of childcare or the cost of lost income. The govt decide to subside that cost in certain circumstances and if you make certain choices. That's just social engineering. Live your lives in the govt approved way and we'll make you better off. Don't live your life in the govt approved way and we'll penalise you in tax and won't give you any benefits.

What you and others seem to be suggesting is that if you're rich you do what you want, if you're poor the govt should tell you how you're allowed to live your life. You can't make choices even if those choices won't cost any more in govt subsidies.

You must work in a grotty low paid job and dump your baby in state approved childcare, even if the net subsidy you get through childcare tax credits is more than the net subsidy you'd get if you stayed at home on income support. It's not a financial decision about how much subsidy you get from the state. It's a decision about the approved way to live your life.

BoJangles_2

zagfles wrote: »

Err.. that's what I said above - it's worth it if you're in a career but we were discussing those at "the bottom", ie earning about NMW when it pays hardly any more than childcare.

Yeah and I've said that, IMO, it is the childcare element that should be looked at so that people can remain in their job. There are rather a lot of jobs that pay nmw because of tax credits...who's to say they won't lead to a career? Even if it is in a supermarket...it can lead to a career...!

OhWow

dizzybuff wrote: »

Unless you have a successful self employment and savings this is just silly.

Why would I quit my job in the hope that a venture would work , that would still require a buisness loan to get started up..

Who said about quitting your job? You could do SE to bring in extra income, but as you have said, if you earn more then that would reduce your benefits.

jojaca

After watching Question Time last and the media picking up on the woman slamming the Tories for cuts in Tax Credits, I checked how much money I will lose next April. I work 40 hours a week and already earning close to the 2020 national minimum wage of £9 an hour and I will be losing £35 a week (£1,820 a year) OUCH!!! I thought you said make work pay Mr Cameron.

dizzybuff

OhWow wrote: »

Who said about quitting your job? You could do SE to bring in extra income, but as you have said, if you earn more then that would reduce your benefits.

Thanks for remembering that. Much appreciated.
The thing is with self employment for example making cosmetics. There are all sorts of overheads , like getting safety assessed, getting insurance, packaging, raw ingredients. Then there's the time to make it. Being a full time worker I could work till 12am doing this. Maybe the weekends without the kids when, I'm cleaning the house, cooking food for.the week or shopping for food. Being a single mum time is precious, this would mean I would have to a not sleep, b not spend time with my children.
That being said there is also the issue of tax. The self employment will be classed as a second income and therefore taxed as such.

Then there is the faf of calculating the tax credits with the tax return I would have to do every year. Meaning inevitably they getting wrong. But hey I have on average six hours spare every night. I don't have to cook clean do homework or sleep. I can just do self employment.

I already work full time. Self employment in the long run would not be viable. Raw materials, insurance, assessments would all take money that isn't there. Along with the increased tax rate as it being a second income, coming out a few quid extra for the extra amount of work dies not seem viable if it takes up my valuable time I have with my children in the evenings. I'm being penalised for working full time and being single IMHO.

But thanks for the information.

cifpower

jojaca wrote: »

After watching Question Time last and the media picking up on the woman slamming the Tories for cuts in Tax Credits, I checked how much money I will lose next April. I work 40 hours a week and already earning close to the 2020 national minimum wage of £9 an hour and I will be losing £35 a week (£1,820 a year) OUCH!!! I thought you said make work pay Mr Cameron.

Honest question - do you really need that money? If it was withdrawn would you be unable to pay rent, council tax, utilities etc?