VW fiddling emissions data

bazster

Except they will not all be at it. It seems that VW's crime came about as a result of them not wanting to fit the urea injection system on these engines. If, as is being reported, other manufacturers have fitted this system (and everyone has been baffled how VW could get away with not fitting it) then the others will be OK (or if they are not OK it will be for different reasons).

So, after urea injection, what will be needed to comply with the next generation of emissions regulations on diesel engines, as if it's not bad enough for owners to have to remember to buy urea and top up a tank of it? This surely spells the beginning of the end for diesel engines, even if they will still be around for a few years yet.

almillar

Remember that 3% of cars sold in the US are diesel, compared to around half in Europe. VW being so into diesel, and being seen as a good brand in US, had a lot to gain from getting their existing customers into their diesels, and grabbing new customers into diesel. They were actually advertising their cars as 'clean diesel'.
These tests were in California which are some of the strictest on the planet, and I think that the cheating VWs were specifically to defeat this test. So these are obviously cars designed for the US market rather than Europe, and designed to a completely different set of emission tests.
I'd like to try to compare, for example, the MPG (I know, different tests) of a US Passat 2.0 TDi versus a European one...

WellKnownSid

buglawton wrote: »

Curious indeed that the VW share price - normally rock-stable over the month - took a sharp dip already last Friday. Not much stock traded but already - did someone have the inside dope?

First news reports were last Friday. That said, the EPA contacted VW in May 2014, and VW already recalled the vehicles last December. Fool the EPA once and it's a stiff letter. Fool them twice...

dannyrst

almillar wrote: »

Remember that 3% of cars sold in the US are diesel, compared to around half in Europe. VW being so into diesel, and being seen as a good brand in US, had a lot to gain from getting their existing customers into their diesels, and grabbing new customers into diesel. They were actually advertising their cars as 'clean diesel'.
These tests were in California which are some of the strictest on the planet, and I think that the cheating VWs were specifically to defeat this test. So these are obviously cars designed for the US market rather than Europe, and designed to a completely different set of emission tests.
I'd like to try to compare, for example, the MPG (I know, different tests) of a US Passat 2.0 TDi versus a European one...

The software exists on 11 million cars. The question is whether that software was adjusted for each market. One would assume it has been, else there is no point having it on the cars outside of the US.

Stoke

scaredofdebt wrote: »

So what now? Ban all diesel cars? Or more likely a massive new tax on them.

I wonder if VW have an electric car for sale?

Would the gov bring in something like that ?

Wig

I wonder what the software detects...

I think it must be a constant higher rev with no air flow detected from a head-wind somehow. i.e. the ECU knows the car is not moving but the revs are high, and maybe showing little to none suspension travel (over bumps in road)..

Any European Commission enquiry which must surely come now, must not be limited to VW, but all manufacturers.

Johnmcl7

Wig wrote: »

I wonder what the software detects...

I think it must be a constant higher rev with no air flow detected from a head-wind somehow. i.e. the ECU knows the car is not moving but the revs are high, and maybe showing little to none suspension travel (over bumps in road)..

Any European Commission enquiry which must surely come now, must not be limited to VW, but all manufacturers.

It's detailed on page 3 here:

http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/documents/vw-nov-caa-09-18-15.pdf

The steering wheel position, vehicle speed, duration of operation and barometric pressure were the main inputs used by the defeat device.

Surprisingly this all started in Europe when irregular emissions numbers were spotted by joint research commission in Europe who contacted a non-profit group ICCT (International Council for Clean Transportation) who funded West Virginia University to carry out emissions testing. The data was then published last year and the EPA picked it up from there, I'm surprised none of this happened in Europe given that's where it started and VW are a European company.

John

bigal831

Am i the only one to wonder whether there is a potential class action claim against VW / volkswagen for compensation in the UK, and not just in North America?

The goods sold may or may not be as described here in the UK, but my "clean" passat bluemotion must today be worth considerably less than it was yesterday, on account of a fraud committed by.... the manufacturer themselves.

DominicH

bazster wrote: »

everyone has been baffled how VW could get away with not fitting it

When they saw that VW had opted to omit the urea system, they said "are they taking the p!ss?"

wealdroam

bigal831 wrote: »

Am i the only one to wonder whether there is a potential class action claim against VW / volkswagen for compensation in the UK, and not just in North America?

The goods sold may or may not be as described here in the UK, but my "clean" passat bluemotion must today be worth considerably less than it was yesterday, on account of a fraud committed by.... the manufacturer themselves.

Class action in the UK?

I don't believe there is such a thing.