VW fiddling emissions data

arcon5

It's not manufacturers we should be moaning at for not getting us in the cheaper bands, it's the government whom setup more expensive bands that a lot of old cheap cars fit in that only the poorer end of society can afford

WellKnownSid

bigjl wrote: »

I wonder if Audi were also up to it? As technically the vehicles are also very similar.

Same company... And yes their Audi brand was part of it too.

Yes, they've all been up to it for years, decades probably more accurately.

We wonder why our real-world mpg never quite seems to get close to the figures manufacturers have to publish. It's always made out to be rocket science, but how hard can it be to write software to beat / cheat the system?

if (conditions[] == test_conditions[]) { cheat_system() }; // duh!

Heard a programme a year or so ago where an organisation had tested thousands of diesel cars at the roadside. All less than one year old. Out of all they tested, ONE vehicle met the NO2 criteria. Most were way out, prompting a call to rethink diesel strategy across the board because they obviously weren't being "used properly". In hindsight, it was probably not usage that caused all of these vehicles to fall out of spec

Probably the tip of the iceberg.

EssexExile

On the news it says VW are recalling 500,000 cars. What are they going to do with them when they get them? Will they reset them so they meet the emissions criteria all the time & perform badly, or so they perform ok but poison more people?

WellKnownSid

EssexExile wrote: »

On the news it says VW are recalling 500,000 cars. What are they going to do with them when they get them? Will they reset them so they meet the emissions criteria all the time & perform badly, or so they perform ok but poison more people?

Flash in some new firmware. There may be compromise - otherwise they would have not have designed the feature in the first place. It may impact performance, engine wear, driveability, component life (egr, turbo, injectors etc) - any number of things - or they simply may never be able to fully meet the criteria in some or all circumstances.

Maybe they subsequently found the right compromise but never bothered to install it, just kept their heads down. Arguing that it was down to "customers driving them wrong". Until they were told their 2016 models would not be certified unless they explained the difference in real-world vs test data.

If BP has proved anything, it's that corporate accountability will be taken seriously.

WellKnownSid

Now with added Asia...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34322016

buglawton

Here's the conspiracy theory: VW realised they were going to get caught out soon, but also know that most car manufacturers selling diesels passenger cars in the U.S. are up to similar tricks.

So got their confession and apology in first.

Next up: Other car makers found out as well.
Buy your VW shares soon, they'll by 10% up once the furore dies down.

Jay_Tee

buglawton wrote: »

Here's the conspiracy theory: VW realised they were going to get caught out soon, but also know that most car manufacturers selling diesels passenger cars in the U.S. are up to similar tricks.

So got their confession and apology in first.

Next up: Other car makers found out as well.
Buy your VW shares soon, they'll by 10% up once the furore dies down.

The problem with that theory is that VAG sells the great majority of diesels passenger cars in the U.S. so even if others are at it they won't be able to divert attention from themselves.

Then there's the issue of whether they have been cheating in other markets? What happens if they cheated on acheiving EURO 5 or Euro 6 in a market where rather than 6% of sales are diesel 50% are?

I'm not sure I'd want to invest in VAG shares for quite a while.

WellKnownSid

Follow up on R4 this morning basically confirmed that there were multiple findings by organisations throughout UK/Europe over the last few years that just 10% of new diesel cars appeared to be operating within spec for parameters like NOx.

I recall at the time, everybody was told that it was the way cars were being driven in the real world, and the (now obviously fairly weak) conclusion reached was that lab testing was obviously 'not representative'. Calls made for better lab testing. Calls made to rethink diesel car taxation, especially given health risks in cities. Some of you may remember calls being made by some cities in the last year or so to ban / reduce / charge diesel vehicles, as city use appeared to give the worst figures. This prompted manufacturers groups to point out how brilliant diesel cars were.

Chap on R4 this morning reiterated that the average car tested was pumping out 3x the permitted NOx levels - all cars < 1 year old in the UK test IIRC. Also stated that Vauxhall Zafira Tourer (GM) and BMW X3 were pumping out up to 10x the permitted NOx levels.

Now the cat is out of the bag, I tend to agree with buglawton... VW may have been trying to come clean first.

scaredofdebt

So what now? Ban all diesel cars? Or more likely a massive new tax on them.

I wonder if VW have an electric car for sale?

glentoran99

scaredofdebt wrote: »

So what now? Ban all diesel cars? Or more likely a massive new tax on them.

I wonder if VW have an electric car for sale?

They do, but it uses diesel, just has a battery powered sticker on it for the testers