VW fiddling emissions data

WellKnownSid

EssexExile wrote: »

On the news it says VW are recalling 500,000 cars. What are they going to do with them when they get them? Will they reset them so they meet the emissions criteria all the time & perform badly, or so they perform ok but poison more people?

Bloomberg has some background:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-19/volkswagen-emissions-cheating-found-by-curious-clean-air-group

EPA:
http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf/bd4379a92ceceeac8525735900400c27/dfc8e33b5ab162b985257ec40057813b!OpenDocument

It transpires that - unlike other manufacturers that have fitted Ad Blue (urea) systems to all of their vehicles - on the smaller 2 litre units VW omitted the Ad Blue system altogether. "No-one understood how they did it"...

Well, how they did it was to detect the lab test - reducing the engine performance - and the NOx levels with it. On the open road, they would spew out up to 40x the amount, by dialing up the performance once again.

One fix may be to retrofit an Ad Blue injection system to all of the effected vehicles. I cannot see that being a cheap and pain-free exercise on 482,000 vehicles!

Mr_Mink

scaredofdebt wrote: »

I wonder if VW have an electric car for sale?

There's an E-Golf and the very northern sounding E-Up.

dannyrst

WellKnownSid wrote: »

Bloomberg has some background:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-19/volkswagen-emissions-cheating-found-by-curious-clean-air-group

EPA:
http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf/bd4379a92ceceeac8525735900400c27/dfc8e33b5ab162b985257ec40057813b!OpenDocument

It transpires that - unlike other manufacturers that have fitted Ad Blue (urea) systems to all of their vehicles - on the smaller 2 litre units VW omitted the Ad Blue system altogether. "No-one understood how they did it"...

Well, how they did it was to detect the lab test - reducing the engine performance - and the NOx levels with it. On the open road, they would spew out up to 40x the amount, by dialing up the performance once again.

One fix may be to retrofit an Ad Blue injection system to all of the effected vehicles. I cannot see that being a cheap and pain-free exercise on 482,000 vehicles!

It stretches potentially to 11 million vehicles, all with the specific engine in question.

If the performance is impacted because of the change to meet emissions requirements, you will have to factor in the people who want to return their vehicles because they have a lack of power from what was advertised at the time of purchase.

buglawton

Curious indeed that the VW share price - normally rock-stable over the month - took a sharp dip already last Friday. Not much stock traded but already - did someone have the inside dope?

neilmcl

Mr_Mink wrote: »

There's an E-Golf and the very northern sounding E-Up.

And the Golf GTE.

dannyrst

buglawton wrote: »

Curious indeed that the VW share price - normally rock-stable over the month - took a sharp dip already last Friday. Not much stock traded but already - did someone have the inside dope?

Given that the research has been going on for the best part of the year, there have probably been some rumors. Plus there will have been reports that the new VW cars had failed their certification for emissions. It was only after this was the case that VW held their hands up and told the truth.

jase1

They'll all be at this.

Also bear in mind that the US government and car manufacturers are very minded to engage in dirty tricks.

Toyota's recall was to replace a part manufactured by a GM subsidiary.

Now, just a few days after GM were forced, kicking and screaming into providing compensation after covering up lethal faults in ignition-key systems over two decades (and trying to get out of it by claiming protection after calling in the receivers), this comes out about VW.

In both cases I would say this is is dirty tricks by the Americans to protect their own, corrupt and dodgy manufacturers.

Both Toyota and VW have brought this on themselves by not being vigilant enough of course, but the Yanks have loads of form in this area.

dannyrst

jase1 wrote: »

They'll all be at this.

Also bear in mind that the US government and car manufacturers are very minded to engage in dirty tricks.

Toyota's recall was to replace a part manufactured by a GM subsidiary.

Now, just a few days after GM were forced, kicking and screaming into providing compensation after covering up lethal faults in ignition-key systems over two decades (and trying to get out of it by claiming protection after calling in the receivers), this comes out about VW.

In both cases I would say this is is dirty tricks by the Americans to protect their own, corrupt and dodgy manufacturers.

Both Toyota and VW have brought this on themselves by not being vigilant enough of course, but the Yanks have loads of form in this area.

Is it just the US though?

Extract from BBC website:

Mike Hawes, who is chief executive of the UK's Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders, said the EU operated a "fundamentally different system" from the US, with tests performed in strict conditions and witnessed by a government-appointed independent approval agency.

"There is no evidence that manufacturers cheat the cycle," he said. "Vehicles are removed from the production line randomly and must be standard production models, certified by the relevant authority - the UK body being the Vehicle Certification Agency, which is responsible to the Department for Transport."

If there is nothing to hide, do the same tests as were done in the US in the EU.

jase1

Problem with that is that the US VW cars are not the same as the ones in the EU.

They're all built in Mexico for the North American market, and I would suspect that the emissions tuning in the two centres are very different.

Oblivion

I wonder how long it will be before we see some class actions by those who are dying (or relatives of those who have already died) of lung disease. Obviously hard to prove it was solely from diesel emissions but I'm sure there will be plenty of solicitors out there willing to take a punt.