Shocked at my friend.

cavework

Person_one wrote: »

Well, not in terms of how I would describe (or not describe) somebody's ethnicity or race. Why would there be? A I say, most of the time its not relevant. I might mention that my friend is Asian if I was describing their wedding, as it would be relevant, but wouldn't if I was talking about how I'd met them for lunch and played I spy with their child.

You're talking about a physical description, which is needed if you're pointing someone out in a crowd or similar, but mostly isn't required at all in general conversation.

I find that white people insert descriptors of race/ethnicity far more often when talking about non-white people than they ever do when talking about other white people, and I genuinely don't think they even notice that they're doing it! People will talk about the lovely Asian shopkeeper, or the friendly black nurse, or that their doctor is Polish when they never would have felt the need to mention if those people were white.

So all those above , never ever refer to the people they come into contact with as the white English lady .. the Scotish bloke or the man with the welsh accent ?

Person_one

cavework wrote: »

So all those above , never ever refer to the people they come into contact with as the white English lady .. the Scotish bloke or the man with the welsh accent ?

No to the first one, yes to the second two.

I suppose some of it is human nature, people notice difference and tend to see themselves as the 'norm'.

Doesn't mean we can't be aware of it and try to do it less when its not at all relevant.

cavework

TBH .. it isn't relevant .. it should not mean anything , it is a way us humans communicate.
Most people understand this.. those that don't need educating from the rest of us.. not prosecuting or hounding

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Person_one wrote: »

Well, not in terms of how I would describe (or not describe) somebody's ethnicity or race. Why would there be? A I say, most of the time its not relevant. I might mention that my friend is Asian if I was describing their wedding, as it would be relevant, but wouldn't if I was talking about how I'd met them for lunch and played I spy with their child.

You're talking about a physical description, which is needed if you're pointing someone out in a crowd or similar, but mostly isn't required at all in general conversation.

I find that white people insert descriptors of race/ethnicity far more often when talking about non-white people than they ever do when talking about other white people, and I genuinely don't think they even notice that they're doing it! People will talk about the lovely Asian shopkeeper, or the friendly black nurse, or that their doctor is Polish when they never would have felt the need to mention if those people were white.

I've not yet met somebody from Poland who isn't white.


We have to differentiate in lots of ways - if you don't actually know the name of the kid you just spotted doing something they shouldn't in the playground and you aren't able to point them out because they've done a disappearing act, you have to narrow it down in a highly diverse environment;

Boy/Girl
Ginger hair/massive afro/cornrows/twists with red/blonde/gold afro/curly/blonde
Blue eyes/pale green eyes/glasses/very dark eyes
White/Black/lightskinned/golden toned/freckles/similar skin tone to x kid/lighter than x/darker than x
Tall/short/middling/taller than me/shorter than me/taller or shorter than x kid
Hangs about with kids y and z


Kids at the school would gleefully challenge somebody who studiously ignored any characteristics - 'How would you describe a, b or c? Why don't you notice a's afro, that b is Muslim and c is black but has green eyes? You know that means you're saying we all look alike to you, don't you?'. It's equally important in reverse, though - one lad said that he couldn't tell the difference between a very dark tanned white kid and a very pale and freckly one - his best mate said very loudly 'all white people look the same to you? Really?' :rotfl:

Person_one

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

I've not yet met somebody from Poland who isn't white.

I have, but you're right I should have said white and English (I'm in England.)

The rest of your post falls easily into 'relevant and necessary' and was what I meant by this bit of the post you quoted:

"You're talking about a physical description, which is needed if you're pointing someone out in a crowd or similar, but mostly isn't required at all in general conversation. "

Feral_Moon

Person_one wrote: »

How often do you call somebody 'white'? Honestly?

Never! And nor do I ever call anyone black. I don't feel the need to refer to a person's skin colour in order to describe them. We are all people after all. I'm more inclined to take clues from language/dialect to ascertain a person's origin. Far more reliable in my opinion.

PasturesNew

Feral_Moon wrote: »

Never! And nor do I ever call anyone black. I don't feel the need to refer to a person's skin colour in order to describe them. We are all people after all. I'm more inclined to take clues from language/dialect to ascertain a person's origin. Far more reliable in my opinion.

What if that's the only thing you can differentiate them by? Two blokes work at the same place you drive past every morning, both about average height, both about 20 ...... both dark hair .... one's white, one's black.

As you drove past this morning, one of them waved.

How do you tell your work mate? "One of the blokes waved at me this morning" - "Really, which one?"

KiKi

Lily-Rose wrote: »

So many people say this pollypenny, and I am sure it's wrong too!!!

Like when people say ALUMINUM instead of ALUMINIUM (usually Americans,) (and they also say 'I could care less' instead of I COULDN'T care less.)

I'm totally with you on people pronouncing things / using words wrongly (like 'pacific' instead of 'specific', or 'would of' instead of 'would have') - my pet peeve. But I do have to correct you on this one!

'Aluminum' is (obviously) a different word, not one that's just pronounced wrongly. But more than that, it was actually the original English word for what we now call 'Aluminium', and the Americans adopted it. A UK scientist then changed it(!) in the 19th century to 'Aluminium', because the ending sounded better, and was then consistent with all the other elements that were being discovered and named at the time (potassium, sodium etc), so it was considered a better fit.

In fact, I have a feeling that it had a different name even before aluminum, but that was the first one that was properly used and adopted by America - it was us that then decided to change it, not America.

I do love Eddie Izzard's sketch on this one, though. "You say aluminum, we say aluminium. You say centrifugal, we say centrifugal. You say leee-sure, we say lezz-ur-eye-ay. You say bay-zil, we say basil. You say 'erbs, we say herbs. Because there's a f'***ing 'h' in it. But you spell 'through' T-H-R-U and I'm with you on that, because we spell it 'thruff'."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dz4Ps55Rx40

KiKi

Feral_Moon

PasturesNew wrote: »

What if that's the only thing you can differentiate them by? Two blokes work at the same place you drive past every morning, both about average height, both about 20 ...... both dark hair .... one's white, one's black.

As you drove past this morning, one of them waved.

How do you tell your work mate? "One of the blokes waved at me this morning" - "Really, which one?"

Why would he/she need to know exactly who? I'd just say "I drove past xxxx this morning and an incredibly sexy guy waved at me". Why would I even need to mention his skin colour? It's irrelevant.

If pressed further I'd probably refer to a significant item of clothing they wore which might identify them.

PasturesNew

Feral_Moon wrote: »

Why would he/she need to know exactly who? I'd just say "I drove past xxxx this morning and an incredibly sexy guy waved at me". Why would I even need to mention his skin colour? It's irrelevant.

You're seeing racism where it doesn't exist. You'd use it to answer the question of "which one?" and if the only difference is colour, then that's what you do.

OK, you drive past a place where there are two black blokes, both average height, both dark hair.... one's fat, one's slim.

"Which one?" ..... no point saying colour if they're both the same. You go for another identifier. "It was the thin one"

It might be that both, or neither, are sexy or unsexy.