We'd like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum... Read More »
PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING: Hello Forumites! In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non-MoneySaving matters are not permitted per the Forum rules. While we understand that mentioning house prices may sometimes be relevant to a user's specific MoneySaving situation, we ask that you please avoid veering into broad, general debates about the market, the economy and politics, as these can unfortunately lead to abusive or hateful behaviour. Threads that are found to have derailed into wider discussions may be removed. Users who repeatedly disregard this may have their Forum account banned. Please also avoid posting personally identifiable information, including links to your own online property listing which may reveal your address. Thank you for your understanding.
Landlord reneged on our agreement
R997
Posts: 61 Forumite
We recently vacated a rental property after just over five years, and we're having a few issues with the landlord. I'm hoping someone will know where I stand legally before I have to start engaging solicitors and taking formal legal advice.
We put down 1.5 months rent when we moved in back in 2010. A total of £1350. This was held by the letting agent, who at the time also managed the property. At some point about three years ago the landlord took over the direct management of the property, but he original agent continued to hold the deposit.
We're a family with with two small kids, and when we moved in the carpets were in a terrible state, with moth holes and stains all over the place. The landlord had redecorated to a fairly low standard, but aside from the carpets it wasn't in a bad condition.
We had the carpets cleaned professionally a couple of times, but they've remained horrible. Aside from that the walls have picked up various marks and scuffs - essentially, what you would expect from four people living in a house for five years. No major damage anywhere.
During our tenancy we added a lock to the front door, re-turfed the garden (which was a desolate wasteland in 2010), jet-washed paths and decking, had SKY installed, and never expect the landlord to pick up the cost of any of this or reimburse us. On the other hand, and landlord has done nothing to maintain the property. Fences, decking and windows are rotting, exterior paintwork is degrading badly. Inside the house, light-transformers in the bathrooms and kitchen have failed and never been replaced. Extractor fans have failed. The boiler has leaked and repeatedly shut itself down during the entire tenancy. There has been a persistent water leak in the CH for at least four years, which he's never done anything about. He's aware of all these things.
We haven't been model tenants. We drilled holes to hang a painting and white-board, and added a safety catch to the window in the kids room, even though we'd been told we couldn't, but nothing particularly terrible. We once paid the rent a day late because of a mistake on my part, but never ever missed a payment or messed the landlord around financially.
We met the landlord last week to do an exit inspection. We'd allowed five days after we moved out for cleaning, and had booked a professional company to do this. We used the preferred cleaner of the original letting agent, and agree with them that the £264 for this would come from the deposit. The landlord had already arranged a new tenant, so was desperate to get in asap. Because of this we did the exit inspection before the end of the tenancy, and before the cleaner had come.
The landlord is a singularly charmless man, and decreed the state of the house to be "appalling". He was adamant that the house must be cleaned professionally, and the carpets shampooed. He suggested that he may even take us to court, but ditched that idea when I called his bluff.
We haggled over how much of the deposit would be retained. He wanted £1000 to redecorate the whole house. I think we could have legitimately claimed wear-and-tear, but I did feel a little guilty about drilling holes and leaving blue-tac marks, so we offered £300 towards costs, and he agreed. Eventually we settled on £641, for the previously arranged professional clean, decorating costs and half the cost of cleaning the carpets, and that we would cut the grass before we left, which we did. We also left it with him to schedule the cleaning we had paid for so he could redecorate first.
We contacted the cleaner today to check that everything had gone to plan, to discover that the landlord had cancelled the professional cleaning, telling them that he would do it himself, and pocketed the money. It seems entirely possible he may have done the same thing with the re-decorating.
I contacted the original agent and advised them that I am no longer happy with the agreement we made, and that the money should remain in escrow until we come to a new arrangement.
I have it all in writing, broken down into exactly what we would pay for, and agreed by the landlord.
I'm extremely annoyed that the landlord has tried to simply take my money. We upheld our side of the agreement to the letter, but he clearly hasn't done the same.
I'm not sure where I stand now. Does anyone know? I'm inclined to make a new offer of £250, "take it or leave it", and see what happens.
We put down 1.5 months rent when we moved in back in 2010. A total of £1350. This was held by the letting agent, who at the time also managed the property. At some point about three years ago the landlord took over the direct management of the property, but he original agent continued to hold the deposit.
We're a family with with two small kids, and when we moved in the carpets were in a terrible state, with moth holes and stains all over the place. The landlord had redecorated to a fairly low standard, but aside from the carpets it wasn't in a bad condition.
We had the carpets cleaned professionally a couple of times, but they've remained horrible. Aside from that the walls have picked up various marks and scuffs - essentially, what you would expect from four people living in a house for five years. No major damage anywhere.
During our tenancy we added a lock to the front door, re-turfed the garden (which was a desolate wasteland in 2010), jet-washed paths and decking, had SKY installed, and never expect the landlord to pick up the cost of any of this or reimburse us. On the other hand, and landlord has done nothing to maintain the property. Fences, decking and windows are rotting, exterior paintwork is degrading badly. Inside the house, light-transformers in the bathrooms and kitchen have failed and never been replaced. Extractor fans have failed. The boiler has leaked and repeatedly shut itself down during the entire tenancy. There has been a persistent water leak in the CH for at least four years, which he's never done anything about. He's aware of all these things.
We haven't been model tenants. We drilled holes to hang a painting and white-board, and added a safety catch to the window in the kids room, even though we'd been told we couldn't, but nothing particularly terrible. We once paid the rent a day late because of a mistake on my part, but never ever missed a payment or messed the landlord around financially.
We met the landlord last week to do an exit inspection. We'd allowed five days after we moved out for cleaning, and had booked a professional company to do this. We used the preferred cleaner of the original letting agent, and agree with them that the £264 for this would come from the deposit. The landlord had already arranged a new tenant, so was desperate to get in asap. Because of this we did the exit inspection before the end of the tenancy, and before the cleaner had come.
The landlord is a singularly charmless man, and decreed the state of the house to be "appalling". He was adamant that the house must be cleaned professionally, and the carpets shampooed. He suggested that he may even take us to court, but ditched that idea when I called his bluff.
We haggled over how much of the deposit would be retained. He wanted £1000 to redecorate the whole house. I think we could have legitimately claimed wear-and-tear, but I did feel a little guilty about drilling holes and leaving blue-tac marks, so we offered £300 towards costs, and he agreed. Eventually we settled on £641, for the previously arranged professional clean, decorating costs and half the cost of cleaning the carpets, and that we would cut the grass before we left, which we did. We also left it with him to schedule the cleaning we had paid for so he could redecorate first.
We contacted the cleaner today to check that everything had gone to plan, to discover that the landlord had cancelled the professional cleaning, telling them that he would do it himself, and pocketed the money. It seems entirely possible he may have done the same thing with the re-decorating.
I contacted the original agent and advised them that I am no longer happy with the agreement we made, and that the money should remain in escrow until we come to a new arrangement.
I have it all in writing, broken down into exactly what we would pay for, and agreed by the landlord.
I'm extremely annoyed that the landlord has tried to simply take my money. We upheld our side of the agreement to the letter, but he clearly hasn't done the same.
I'm not sure where I stand now. Does anyone know? I'm inclined to make a new offer of £250, "take it or leave it", and see what happens.
0
Comments
-
Maybe the landlord has postponed the cleaning? Perhaps he's planning on redecorating so no point in getting a cleaner until it's done? Have you asked the landlord about it?0
-
Maybe the landlord has postponed the cleaning?
Spoke to the cleaner we had arranged and he confirmed the LL had cancelled, not postponed. Also, good friends with the next-door neighbour. They've been watching the new tenant move in today. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt, but he lost that right a long time ago. He also owns the house next-door, and collectively we've had enough small "incidents" with him to degrade any notion of trust.0 -
Why does it matter who does the cleaning.
You agreed how much the deduction should be. It's up to the landlord how he cleans or even if he doesn't bother.
It doesn't affect you at all what he does with the money to clean up after you.0 -
I'm afraid you have arranged all this out of ignorance. If the LL had a pre and post tenancy inventory check.., you could have entered into a sensible discussion as to what needed to be paid by you to cover damages.
If he didn't, he'd have problems proving it was you that did this damage.
Whether you installed sky or a lift to the heavens.., he owes you nothing for that. (Installation is often free if you negotiate anyway), same for a lot of the things you have mentioned.
The repairs that weren't done - there is a process set down by shelter for getting repairs done. You lived there for six years.., it can't have annoyed you that much. Plus as an intelligent human being you could have investigated what you could do about the situation. You chose not to. I hope you have written to him by letter about the repairs. This is what you have to do.
The holes in the wall, you could have repaired, its not a long job. You could have repainted the walls (two coats of paint, quick paint job will take 3 hours for one room) saving yourself that cost. Or you could have disputed this needed to be done after the time you were in the house. Up to you.
Re him agreeing to take money for cleaning etc and not getting it done. If he was awarded this money in court or by DPS.., him being awarded the money does NOT obligate him to use the money for cleaning etc. It compensates him for damage you agreed you did (foolishly in my opinion if he didn't have an inventory and the carpet was as damaged as you say).
Have you checked the deposit was protected? If not you may still be able to save the day, send a letter before action asking for your deposit back in full (you could add on more deposit as compensation) or he will pay court costs and risk you being awarded 3x deposit. The LL is responsible for repaying the deposit, not the previous LA, in case there is any confusion.
That's it.
Don't do it like this again. Take photos as soon as you move in. Take photos before you leave. Then negotiate from a firmer position. If you can afford to throw money away, do the same thing again (don't repair things you damaged, don't repaint marked walls or fill holes in the wall and be prepared to pay for this) or you could reduce the money you pay out by doing basic maintenance.
How widely was the LL smirking when he left the house? If you like that look, repeat as and when desired.
Up to you.0 -
Landlords can keep x money for x damage, they are not obliged to use that money to fix x damage.0
-
Look, the money is an agreed amount as compensation for the agreed state of the property. What happens to the money thereafter is irrelevant..... I'm hoping someone will know where I stand legally ..I'll try. Are you in England? Wales?
We put down 1.5 months rent when we moved in back in 2010.as a deposit I asume? A total of £1350. This was held by the letting agent, who at the time also managed the property.
Registered in a scheme? Which one?
At some point about three years ago the landlord took over the direct management of the property, but he original agent continued to hold the deposit. Fair enough
We're a family with with two small kids, and when we moved in the carpets were in a terrible state, with moth holes and stains all over the place. The landlord had redecorated to a fairly low standard, but aside from the carpets it wasn't in a bad condition.documented?
We had the carpets cleaned professionally a couple of times, but they've remained horrible. Aside from that the walls have picked up various marks and scuffs That's arguably not wear & tear - essentially, what you would expect from four people living in a house for five years. No major damage anywhere.
open to legal debate.
During our tenancy we added a lock to the front door, re-turfed the garden (which was a desolate wasteland in 2010), jet-washed paths and decking, had SKY installed, and never expect the landlord to pick up the cost of any of this or reimburse us.
your choice, but irrelevant
On the other hand, and landlord has done nothing to maintain the property. Fences, decking and windows are rotting, exterior paintwork is degrading badly. Inside the house, light-transformers in the bathrooms and kitchen have failed and never been replaced. Extractor fans have failed. The boiler has leaked and repeatedly shut itself down during the entire tenancy. There has been a persistent water leak in the CH for at least four years, which he's never done anything about. He's aware of all these things.
all properly reported in writing by you I trust.
We haven't been model tenants. We drilled holes to hang a painting and white-board, damage and added a safety catch to the window in the kids room, even though we'd been told we couldn't, damagebut nothing particularly terrible. We once paid the rent a day late because of a mistake on my part, but never ever missed a payment or messed the landlord around financially.irreevant
We met the landlord last week to do an exit inspection. We'd allowed five days after we moved out for cleaning, and had booked a professional company to do this. We used the preferred cleaner of the original letting agent, and agree with them that the £264 for this would come from the deposit.
why agree with the agent? You said earlier the LL was now self-managing....
However it seems this arrangement was never implemented?
The landlord had already arranged a new tenant, so was desperate to get in asap. Because of this we did the exit inspection before the end of the tenancy, and before the cleaner had come.
The landlord is a singularly charmless man, and decreed the state of the house to be "appalling". He was adamant that the house must be cleaned professionally, and the carpets shampooed. He suggested that he may even take us to court, but ditched that idea when I called his bluff.interesting but irrelevant
We haggled over how much of the deposit would be retained. He wanted £1000 to redecorate the whole house. I think we could have legitimately claimed wear-and-tear, but I did feel a little guilty about drilling holes and leaving blue-tac marks, so we offered £300 towards costs, and he agreed. all irrelevant (legally) Eventually we settled on £641, for the previously arranged professional clean, decorating costs and half the cost of cleaning the carpets, and that we would cut the grass before we left, which we did. We also left it with him to schedule the cleaning we had paid for so he could redecorate first.
OK - this is the critical oaragraph. You agreed £641 + some addtional tasks by yourself
We contacted the cleaner today to check that everything had gone to plan,
Why - not your business
to discover that the landlord had cancelled the professional cleaning, telling them that he would do it himself, and pocketed the money.
His choice. You agreed to pay £641. What he does with his money, and his property, is his business.
It seems entirely possible he may have done the same thing with the re-decorating. Again, his choice
I contacted the original agent and advised them that I am no longer happy with the agreement we made, and that the money should remain in escrow until we come to a new arrangement.
Don't see how you can go back on your agreement
I have it all in writing, broken down into exactly what we would pay for, and agreed by the landlord.
I'm extremely annoyed that the landlord has tried to simply take my money. We upheld our side of the agreement to the letter, but he clearly hasn't done the same.
I'm not sure where I stand now. Does anyone know? I'm inclined to make a new offer of £250, "take it or leave it", and see what happens.
Compare: You own a car worth £2000. I crash into it and write it off. Therefore I (or my insurance) pay you £2000.
You can either buy a new car, or pocket the money and start travelling by bus. Your choice.
The only critical missing information concerns where/how the deposit was held. Was it registered (assuming Eng/Wales)? Read:
* Deposits: payment, protection and return0 -
It seems to be you who is reneging.
If you dispute the agreed deductions now then from the L viewpoint I would expect "all bets are off" and all his original claims would be back in play.
The outcome would depend on the dispute resolution process but you could end up paying more than you have currently agreed.0 -
deannatrois wrote: »I'm afraid you have arranged all this out of ignorance. If the LL had a pre and post tenancy inventory check.., you could have entered into a sensible discussion as to what needed to be paid by you to cover damages. There was, and we did.
Whether you installed sky or a lift to the heavens.., he owes you nothing for that. (Installation is often free if you negotiate anyway), same for a lot of the things you have mentioned. This was to give context. I didn't expect anything for it. I'm not naive.
The repairs that weren't done - there is a process set down by shelter for getting repairs done. You lived there for six years.., it can't have annoyed you that much. Plus as an intelligent human being you could have investigated what you could do about the situation. You chose not to. How do you know this? I hope you have written to him by letter about the repairs. This is what you have to do. Email
The holes in the wall, you could have repaired, I did. its not a long job. I know. You could have repainted the walls (two coats of paint, quick paint job will take 3 hours for one room) saving yourself that cost. Or you could have disputed this needed to be done after the time you were in the house. I did.
Re him agreeing to take money for cleaning etc and not getting it done. If he was awarded this money in court or by DPS You seem not to have read my question? .., him being awarded the money does NOT obligate him to use the money for cleaning etc.
Have you checked the deposit was protected? It was. If not you may still be able to save the day, send a letter before action asking for your deposit back in full (you could add on more deposit as compensation) or he will pay court costs and risk you being awarded 3x deposit. The LL is responsible for repaying the deposit, not the previous LA Actually they hold in escrow. I did say that., in case there is any confusion. There isn't.
Don't do it like this again. Take photos as soon as you move in. Take photos before you leave. Did both. Then negotiate from a firmer position. If you can afford to throw money away, do the same thing again (don't repair things you damaged, don't repaint marked walls or fill holes in the wall and be prepared to pay for this) or you could reduce the money you pay out by doing basic maintenance. I did.
How widely was the LL smirking when he left the house? If you like that look, repeat as and when desired.
Thanks for taking the time to answer, but please read and understand the question before you leap to conclusions and post unhelpful responses.0 -
Look, the money is an agreed amount as compensation for the agreed state of the property. What happens to the money thereafter is irrelevant.
It wasn't agreed as compensation for damage done. It was worked out together on the basis of what we agreed needed to be done, and then documented. At the very least he deliberately misled us. We had entered into a contract with the cleaner to provide services, and for this to be paid from the deposit.0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 349.9K Banking & Borrowing
- 252.6K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 453K Spending & Discounts
- 242.8K Work, Benefits & Business
- 619.7K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 176.4K Life & Family
- 255.8K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
- 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards