Landlord reneged on our agreement

R997

BobQ wrote: »

You need to appreciate that your statements are ambiguous.

Do you understand this distinction?

I didn't appreciate the distinction, but do now, and I can see why my answers were misleading. Annoyingly I can't find the contact. We've just moved, and it's a box somewhere. (Picture the scene at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark).

When the tenancy changed from management by the agency, to management by the landlord, I checked the status of the deposit. I did this because I knew we'd inevitably run into problems at the end..... It was always going to happen. The LL is just that kind of guy. Perhaps I am too. The agent confirmed that the deposit was held in such a way that the landlord could not get the money until we both agreed a sum. This is backed up by all the subsequent conversations I've had with the agent, and also by the fact I was able to stop the return of the deposit at all. If the agent was just holding the deposit for the LL then surely they'd have told me to "jog on".

Based on the answers I've read here, this suggests to me that the money is indeed held in a deposit scheme - which is "escrow" by the dictionary definition, but probably not the right terminology to use here (sorry :embarasse). I don't know which scheme, and without the contract I can't confirm it. I've tired to call the agents office, but it's Saturday afternoon, and they're closed.

If the LL could have taken it all, he would have. We wouldn't even have had a conversation which led to the £641 agreement. This might sound harsh, but I've met the man and dealt with him for five years, so on this, I know best.

So, for clarity: Yes, I believe the deposit is held in a protection scheme. No, the LL does not have the money. Yes, we had come to an agreement, which I fulfilled in it's entirety and the landlord did not. He has deliberately lied and mislead me (which is entirely in character), and I am justified in being annoyed. Perhaps I have nowhere to go with that anger. These things happen in life. I'll move on.

Before I call up the agent on Monday and tell them to go ahead with the £641, I'd like to know how strong my position is. He's certainly acted immorally, but if my only response to this is to sleep well at night knowing I'm a better man than him, that's okay. However, if by misleading me he's acted illegally and I'm in a place to renegotiate that agreement, I'm up for that too.

R997

BrassicWoman wrote: »

they were legally accurate. or were you looking for a "poor snookums" response?

Sorry, did you have anything useful to contribute?

G_M

R997 wrote: »

...... .... this suggests to me that the money is indeed held in a deposit scheme -...... I don't know which scheme, and without the contract I can't confirm it..

You don't need the contract.

Have you yet read the link provided?

And seen how to check if the deposit is registered?

R997

G_M wrote: »

You don't need the contract.
Have you yet read the link provided?
And seen how to check if the deposit is registered?

Yep, read the link you provided. I've tried all three services, but I don't have all the information required. It's not found by mydeposits. DPS rings a bell, but wants the exact figure of the deposit. I know it was 1.5 months rent, but I cant remember exactly what that was at the start of the tenancy. It changed twice in the time we lived there. It's in the contract, which I still can't find.

Link provided useful info though. Thanks.

R997

R997 wrote: »

Link provided useful info though. Thanks.

One thing I found especially useful was this: A security deposit belongs to the tenant.

We had chosen to allocate £264 of the deposit for a professional cleaner. That was our money and that formed part of the agreement with the landlord when we left. It was an itemised and agreed list of conditions and individual payments, not a block settlement figure.

Under those circumstances how is this different from us paying the agent in advance in cash for the cleaning, only for the landlord to cancel it and pocket the cash?

Guest101

R997 wrote: »

One thing I found especially useful was this: A security deposit belongs to the tenant.

We had chosen to allocate £264 of the deposit for a professional cleaner. That was our money and that formed part of the agreement with the landlord when we left. It was an itemised and agreed list of conditions and individual payments, not a block settlement figure.

Under those circumstances how is this different from us paying the agent in advance in cash for the cleaning, only for the landlord to cancel it and pocket the cash?

Right. There's no such thing as a professional cleaner. There is no city and guilds accredited qualification, no royal chartered institute of cleaning.


If the LL does it himself, why should he not get paid for doing so?!

R997

Guest101 wrote: »

If the LL does it himself, why should he not get paid for doing so?!

Totally irrelevant. The landlord repeatedly asserted that the cleaning must be conducted by "professional". Regardless of the status of a cleaner as a recognised profession requiring formal accreditation, the intent was exactly the same. He wanted the cleaning to be undertaken by a third party. He even got us to ring the cleaner we had booked during the exit "inspection" to confirm what was included to ensure it met his standards. We arranged to pay for this out of the deposit, which is our money. At no point did we agree that we ere making a final settlement for damage, or anything of the sort. To be clear, we had booked the cleaner and arranged to pay them from the deposit. As the guidelines on this site say, the deposit is our money, not his.
What if I had paid the cleaner in advance by BACS transfer and he had cancelled, then taken that money for himself? Would that still be okay? No. Of course it wouldn't.
We arranged a cleaner at his insistence, arranged to pay this money from our deposit (our money), agreed this in writing, and he has then pocketed that money.
As I've said before, he has definitely acted immorally, and definitely mislead and lied to me. What I'm trying to understand is if that is legal, or not.

stator

It's probably legal. Play him at his own game and demand the whole deposit back

Guest101

R997 wrote: »

Totally irrelevant. The landlord repeatedly asserted that the cleaning must be conducted by "professional". Regardless of the status of a cleaner as a recognised profession requiring formal accreditation, the intent was exactly the same. He wanted the cleaning to be undertaken by a third party. He even got us to ring the cleaner we had booked during the exit "inspection" to confirm what was included to ensure it met his standards. We arranged to pay for this out of the deposit, which is our money. At no point did we agree that we ere making a final settlement for damage, or anything of the sort. To be clear, we had booked the cleaner and arranged to pay them from the deposit. As the guidelines on this site say, the deposit is our money, not his.
What if I had paid the cleaner in advance by BACS transfer and he had cancelled, then taken that money for himself? Would that still be okay? No. Of course it wouldn't.
We arranged a cleaner at his insistence, arranged to pay this money from our deposit (our money), agreed this in writing, and he has then pocketed that money.
As I've said before, he has definitely acted immorally, and definitely mislead and lied to me. What I'm trying to understand is if that is legal, or not.

The reason your paying for a cleaner is to compensate him for the mess. Your mess!

It's been explained numerous times, you just don't understand, or don't want to understand.

Completely legal, and I sincerely hope you don't make him jump through hoops to get the money you owe him.

And yes, if he cancelled the cleaner and kept the money that would be acceptable assuming you no longer had any liability for the cleaning

R997

Guest101 wrote: »

The reason your paying for a cleaner is to compensate him for the mess. Your mess!

It's been explained numerous times, you just don't understand, or don't want to understand.

Completely legal, and I sincerely hope you don't make him jump through hoops to get the money you owe him.

And yes, if he cancelled the cleaner and kept the money that would be acceptable assuming you no longer had any liability for the cleaning

How do you know there was mess? With all due respect, you're making assumptions there. You have no idea what the specific circumstances were.

It is very much not acceptable to mislead someone, telling them that they must purchase something, then take that money and keep it for yourself. I find it amazing that you need to be told that?

The LL may feel entitled to money for cleaning. Forget the £55k he's already received from me. He needs more. He may, in fact, be a professional cleaner of the very highest acclaim. But, that isn't what we're talking about here. I arranged a cleaner at his instance. I paid for that cleaner with my money, leaving it only for the LL to arrange the date and time, and nothing else. I didn't have to do this. I did it because I wanted to be reasonable, having also agreed to pay £300 toward redecoration costs, again, to be reasonable. The LL didn't schedule the cleaner; he cancelled them and pocketed the money. My money. Money he was not entitled to. Money which at no point constituted part of a settlement agreement.