Landlord reneged on our agreement

BrassicWoman

R997 wrote: »

Sorry, did you have anything useful to contribute?

just trying to work out what you are looking for.

It seems to be "people who will agree with you."

If you can cut to the chase on that, and stop being short with the people who disgree with you, the knowledgable people can go have a cuppa instead.

Which may not be useful for you to know, but will be for the people kindly giving the benefit of their experience.

R997

BrassicWoman wrote: »

just trying to work out what you are looking for.
It seems to be "people who will agree with you."

No, not really. I don't need people to agree with me. If they're going to offer the benefit of their experience it's better done without a condescending attitude though.

[Deleted User]

What you mean like your condescending attitude when we are trying to make sense of what you are writing?

I've read your posts several times and still trying to figure out whether you paid the cleaner, if so was it from the deposit - if so wasn't the cleaner paid directly? How could the LL pocket the money? If the LL was this totally evil character as described how could the LL be allowed to take the money - by you? If you did, how are you going to claim it all back? You seem to be thinking of this now.

If you haven't yet paid the cleaner and the amount is still stuck there in this mysterious deposit cloud (rather than in a nice sensible deposit scheme which is actually legal).., how has the LL pocketed the money?

Hmm, none of this makes sense. But you are managing to paint a certain picture.

Amusing.

Oh and by the way.., you paid £55k for a roof over your head. You did not pay to be allowed to leave repair issues, decorating that needed to be done or possibly a mess (if you didn't leave a mess why did you agree to pay for cleaning?) Maybe you should be angry with yourself rather than this evil LL. Or us ordinary mortals who don't necessarily agree with you.

R997

Okay. I'm sorry if I've come across badly. I don't think I'm getting anywhere here. Clearly better to sleep on it and take professional advice, rather than well-meant opinions. Thanks.

BobQ

If as you say the deposit is protected and you have agreed a sum with him. I would probably accept that the payment is made and notify the LA that you are satisfied they can release that amount to the LL making clear that in doing so it a full and final settlement of all claims by the LL. Personally I would send this in writing (ie not email,phone).

However, if you think that you have not agreed a final sum or that the LL has not done as agreed you could be difficult. If for example the words used were professional clean, you could insist on a VAT receipt from a professional cleaner. Also as has been stated, if LL did not have a check in and check out inventory(ideally with photographs) you could argue that he has no proof that any work needs doing. By check in and check out inventories, we mean a detailed room by room statement of condition that you signed as a record of condition.

The disadvantage is the LL has such a record he might also be difficult (eg, claiming that your jet washing ruined his decking or something).

Personally if you think the sum is fair I would settle and move on, but in the future take lots of digital photos, provide comments in writing of any problems or on their inventory and then take lots of photos when you leave.

Guest101

R997 wrote: »

How do you know there was mess? Because you agreed to pay for cleaning... With all due respect, you're making assumptions there. You have no idea what the specific circumstances were. Because you havent gone into specifics, outside of that you felt obliged to pay for cleaning.

It is very much not acceptable to mislead someone, telling them that they must purchase something, then take that money and keep it for yourself. I find it amazing that you need to be told that? The cleaning wasnt for your benefit, but the LLs. If he decided that the cleaner wasnt suitable and would do it himself, he should be compensated for his time! I find you amazing

The LL may feel entitled to money for cleaning. Forget the £55k he's already received from me. Thats rent, you paid that so you weren't on the street. He needs more. You agreed to pay more. He may, in fact, be a professional cleaner of the very highest acclaim. But, that isn't what we're talking about here. I arranged a cleaner at his instance. He changed his mind. I paid for that cleaner with my money, leaving it only for the LL to arrange the date and time, and nothing else. If you've paid for it already, then nothing to come out of your deposit is there? I didn't have to do this. I did it because I wanted to be reasonable, having also agreed to pay £300 toward redecoration costs, again, to be reasonable. More fool you, if it wasnt necessary. The LL didn't schedule the cleaner; he cancelled them and pocketed the money. My money. Money he was not entitled to. Money he IS entitled to. Money which at no point constituted part of a settlement agreement. Money you agreed to pay for cleaning. Regardless if thats Bill next door, home clean ltd, or the LL himself.

If you'd bothered to answer the simple question of, is the deposit protected (IE go and find out!) - you might find, if it's not, you are also entitled to compensations, to the tune of 1-3x the value of the deposit!

G_M

R997 wrote: »

Okay. I'm sorry if I've come across badly. I don't think I'm getting anywhere here. Clearly better to sleep on it and take professional advice, rather than well-meant opinions. Thanks.

Belated apology acknowledged (I use that word advisedly...)

You're right, most respondants have disagreed with you so you're not getting anywhere here.

Sleep often helps.

Having sought advice here, presumably believing it would be reliable (or at least enough of it to judge which responses were/weren't reliable) you now ignore the unanimous responses and put it down to untrustworthy, unprofessional 'opinion' because it does not support your blinkered position.

Now pop off to see a professional.

R997

G_M wrote: »

Now pop off to see a professional.

Did this, with interesting results. With the BH out of the way I was able to contact the agent we originally dealt with (before the LL took over direct management of the property in 2012). As I mentioned, the deposit didn't move or change when the LL took over, and they were able to confirm the exact amount of the deposit, and also that it was held by TDS.

I also spoke to a friend of a friend, who is a property manager for an agency in Slough. She deals with rental properties, so trust her opinion as she does this all the time. I relayed the details of our situation to her. I was probably able to give her a better account than I did here, as I now have a far better understanding, largely thanks to the helpful posts people have made. She was firmly of the opinion that the LL had acted illegally and advised me to contact TDS. I did this, and spent some time discussing the situation with their advisor. They agreed that the LL had intentionally mislead us, and had acted illegally.

At the crux of the disagreement is the cleaning. They both confirmed the same thing. The deposit was ours. We had agreed that the cost of cleaning, which he insisted must be undertaken "professionally" would be taken out of hte deposit by the agency. This was our money, and he had no right to take it. If he cancelled the cleaner we booked, he should have consulted us, or paid from his own pocket.

Also, upon speaking to the two professionals, the manner in which the exit inspection was conducted was not acceptable and would not stand up to scrutiny, and his insistence that we pay to redecorate the house was also unacceptable under the guidelines laid down by both Shelter and TDS. Also, his insistence that we come to an agreement there and then, on the spot, and without referring to the inventory, was also highly questionable and biased. He likely pressured us to do this knowing we could not dispute it for ten days, and also knowing the agency (according to the property manager) takes about ten days to return the deposit. If we hadn't stopped the agency processing the deposit it would have been in his account by now, and impossible to get back.

Both advised us to go after the full deposit and expect to agree on a nominal fee to cover the cost of paint where we had drilled holes, and probably very little else.

So, with the benefit of professional advice, I will be logging a dispute today or tomorrow.

I'll refrain from smug and condensing comments, and just say thanks for your help. I'll post the outcome here in case it helps anyone else in a similar situation in the future.

Guest101

R997 wrote: »

Did this, with interesting results. With the BH out of the way I was able to contact the agent we originally dealt with (before the LL took over direct management of the property in 2012). As I mentioned, the deposit didn't move or change when the LL took over, and they were able to confirm the exact amount of the deposit, and also that it was held by TDS. - Great. Took you long enough.

I also spoke to a friend of a friend, who is a property manager for an agency in Slough. She deals with rental properties, so trust her opinion as she does this all the time. (Trust an agents opinion, :rotfl:) I relayed the details of our situation to her. I was probably able to give her a better account than I did here, as I now have a far better understanding, largely thanks to the helpful posts people have made. She was firmly of the opinion that the LL had acted illegally (key word there, opinion. You've had plenty of them which tell you he hasnt. Probably more aware of such things than your FOAF) and advised me to contact TDS. I did this, and spent some time discussing the situation with their advisor. They agreed that the LL had intentionally mislead us, and had acted illegally. (Contact crimestoppers immediately! :rotfl:)

At the crux of the disagreement is the cleaning. They both confirmed the same thing. The deposit was ours. (No one said it wasn't. You told everyone here that you agreed the property needed cleaning. ) We had agreed that the cost of cleaning, which he insisted must be undertaken "professionally" would be taken out of hte deposit by the agency. (You agreed to this) This was our money, and he had no right to take it. If he cancelled the cleaner we booked, he should have consulted us, or paid from his own pocket. (You've given absolutely zero reason for this opinion you have. Aside from your attitude of course)

Also, upon speaking to the two professionals, the manner in which the exit inspection was conducted was not acceptable and would not stand up to scrutiny, (In what way?) and his insistence that we pay to redecorate the house was also unacceptable under the guidelines laid down by both Shelter and TDS. (That depends on the damage you caused) Also, his insistence that we come to an agreement there and then, on the spot, and without referring to the inventory, was also highly questionable and biased. (So why didnt you say no? If you need someone to hold your hand to say no, i suspect you're not mature enough to have your own home!) He likely pressured us to do this knowing we could not dispute it for ten days, ( Actually you can start reclaiming the deposit straight away) and also knowing the agency took about ten days to return the deposit. (Irrelevant) If we hadn't stopped the agency processing the deposit it would have been in his account by now, and impossible to get back. (Incorrect)

Both advised us to go after the full deposit and expect to agree on a nominal fee to cover the cost of paint where we had drilled holes, and probably very little else. (amazing they said this without seeing any evidence from either you, or more importantly your landlord...)

So, with the benefit of professional advice, I will be logging a dispute today or tomorrow. (So they didnt explain how this works i guess?)

I'll refrain from smug and condensing comments, and just say thanks for your help. I'll post the outcome here in case it helps anyone else in a similar situation in the future.

Smug and condescending comments? You couldnt make any...

Next thread: TDS promised me my deposit back, but the Landlord won! Help!!

bouicca21

To be fair, I think OP probably has a good case for getting the deposit back almost in entirety. His/her problem was - and maybe still is - that he/she agreed the place neeeded cleaning to the tune of nearly 300 quid. That is good evidence for the LL. We don't actually have much else in the way of evidence in this long trail about the state the place was in originally and what if anything there is on the various inventory checks to prove it.