Landlord reneged on our agreement

Pixie5740

I think the landlord's downfall might be that the LA (the LA that the LL got rid of) registered the deposit therefore the LA can just agree with the OP to release the full deposit.

I suppose the LL could then take that up with the LA but would he/she bother or would they even know they could.

R997

Guest101 wrote: »

Smug and condescending comments? You couldnt make any...

Next thread: TDS promised me my deposit back, but the Landlord won! Help!!

Look, I've taken the advice of two people who do this for a living and been totally honest with them (discussed chronology, evidence, etc, at length). Independently, they have both said the same thing and identified the same issue based on the same information I provided. Their advice marries consistently with - and is supported by - what I've read on the TDS website, here, and on Shelter's website. Neither person has a vested interest in my position. Neither stands to gain anything from pitching me against the landlord.

I'm really sorry that I've wounded you by not taking your advice. Sorry. Sorry! However, cutting apart everything I say and trying to make me appear foolish * just degrades the value of your previous legitimate points.

*insert a sarcastic put-down here?

Guest101

R997 wrote: »

Look, I've taken the advice of two people who do this for a living and been totally honest with them (discussed chronology, evidence, etc, at length). Independently, they have both said the same thing and identified the same issue based on the same information I provided. Their advice marries consistently with - and is supported by - what I've read on the TDS website, here, and on Shelter's website. Neither person has a vested interest in my position. Neither stands to gain anything from pitching me against the landlord.

I'm really sorry that I've wounded you by not taking your advice. Sorry. Sorry! However, cutting apart everything I say and trying to make me appear foolish * just degrades the value of your previous legitimate points.

*insert a sarcastic put-down here?

All i'll say is goodluck.

It's often easy for 'professionals' to give their opinion on an informal level, but you might be in for a shock when the adjudicator is confronted by a wad of evidence from your landlord.

R997

bouicca21 wrote: »

To be fair, I think OP probably has a good case for getting the deposit back almost in entirety. His/her problem was - and maybe still is - that he/she agreed the place neeeded cleaning to the tune of nearly 300 quid. That is good evidence for the LL. We don't actually have much else in the way of evidence in this long trail about the state the place was in originally and what if anything there is on the various inventory checks to prove it.

I can see that might be a problem, but I think it's worth a go. I only agreed the professional clean because we didn't have time to do it ourselves. The place just needed a hoover and the paintwork wiping down, windows cleaning, etc. Nothing heavy-duty. We moved 150 miles away, so coming back for a day to clean the place wasn't that appealing..... hence the willingness to get it done by a professional cleaner...... Regretting that a bit now.

There was an inventory when we moved in. Reports the wall condition as good, but remarks that the carpets were in poor shape in several rooms. The LL didn't have a copy of the inventory when he came to do the exit "inspection", so had no way of comparing the 2015 state to what we moved into in 2010. I didn't know at the time, but I've since learned that this is not good practice and will probably make his case side very difficult to defend.

Mallotum_X

Still don't understand why you care what the landlord does with his money.

You agreed to the deductions, surely that's the end of it.

Whatever happens do let us know.

R997

Thought I'd update this thread as someone might find it useful. It's six weeks since the last time I posted anything here, and in that time I've pulled together all the evidence we had and tried to come to an amicable agreement with the landlord. Contacted the letting agent and acquired a copy of the signed and dated inventory from June 2010 when we occupied. I'd managed to lose my copy over the five years of living there, and getting this has been interesting.

The landlord was adamant that the property was redecorated to a high standard immediately before we moved in, and therefore we must return it to this state. The inventory shows that this clearly wasn't the case. It reports that many walls had scuff marks or small stains left by the previous tenant - certainly things which would not have appeared if it had been redecorated. So, another lie from the LL. Asking your tenant to pay to raise the standard of a property over when they moved in is known as betterment, and is not permitted. The landlord was absolutely within his rights to ask us to cover cost of repairing the holes we drilled in the wall. As we'd filled and prepared the holes all he could really charge us for was paint. He charged us £300 for this. That's enough white paint to cover about 600 square metres of wall (three full-size tennis courts). Enough to repaint the whole property, and several others as well. Way, way, more than he could reasonably charge us for paint to cover a few square cm of filler, which is all he was allowed to do.

Similarly, the inventory shows the state of the carpet as poor throughout the property when we moved in. As with the walls, the landlord could not ask us to replace or professionally clean the carpets, as this too would be betterment. They were in a poor state when we arrived, and were in a poor state when we left. We didn't make a significant difference to them.

With the paintwork and carpets the LL made no allowance what-so-ever for wear and tear. We know the previous tenant lived there for three years, and was the first person in the property. As we now know it wasn't decorated before we moved in, the whole décor is at least eight years old, which exceeds the lifespan in a rental property according to TDS and Shelter guidelines. Basically, the LL should be redecorating now anyway, and is just trying to get us to pay for it.

Lastly, the cleaner. It turns out I opened the door for the LLs "manoeuvre" with the deposit, by not making it sufficiently clear in the email to the agent what was happening. We'd verbally agreed with the cleaner that he would clean and invoice the agent. They, in turn, would deduct this from our deposit. This is fairly standard, and the agent agreed on the phone that we could do it this way. However, in my email I stated only that the cost of the cleaning should be deducted from the deposit, not specifically that it would be used to pay the cleaners invoice. This afforded the LL the opportunity to cancel the cleaner and claim it was just part of the deductions to be paid to him. My bad for not being clear in my communication to the agent, but the landlord knew what the arrangement was and, at best, chose to "misunderstand".

In the last couple of weeks I've worked with the agent to try and come to a negotiated agreement with the LL, who has is now refusing to speak either to me, or to them. Their advice was to log a dispute with the TDS as it clearly cannot be progressed by any other means. Their informal opinion (now the third independent point of view) is that the landlord definitely act inappropriately, and that his total failure to conduct a proper exit inspection, with an agreed outcome, means he's unlikely to see any of the deposit.

I'm still waiting on the TDS outcome and I'll add that to this thread when it comes, but I have already leant some useful points:

- Don't assume the LL will do what he's supposed to do, allowed to do by law, or should do morally. Most certainly do, but ours did and said what he thought he could get away with.
- Have a copy of the inventory with you when you do the exit inspection. If the LL doesn't have a copy (as ours didn't), insist that you follow this, not their opinion. It's not unreasonable that they will be biased towards their needs - it is business after all - so having something in B&W to follow will help keep things equal. Sign and date it when you're done.
- Be extremely clear in your communications. Leave no doubt at all where the deposit will be allocated and by whom. Do everything you can in email or letters. Don't rely on their verbal agreement, especially if it's at the start of the tenancy and you're going to be there for a while. People forget what was said. Better to have it in writing.
- Understand what betterment is, and understand what your (and the landlords) rights are.
- Remember that the deposit is yours, not the LL.
- Don't let them browbeat you into an agreement then and there. Ours did this to prevent us from having the opportunity to do research. If you're not sure, go and find out what you are and are not allowed to do.

Hope this helps someone.

Jhoney_2

Just to add:-

Consider the contract before making changes or agreeing to things before, during and at the end of your agreement.

Make time to fill/repaint/make good any alterations/ improvements/ damage made by you to the property with/out consent WITHIN your notice period.

Keep all agreements formal and in writing to avoid confusion, misunderstanding or malfeasance.

R997

One final update on this thread, in case it's useful to anyone. We received our TDS judgement this morning. They found entirely in our favour.

The adjudicator found that the landlord had attempted betterment of the property. The 2010 check-in document, which I was able to provide, shows that the d!cor and carpets were not new when we moved in. They also found that the landlord had made no allowance for wear and tear, that the life span of the d!cor had been exceeded by a number of years and that he had not provided any evidence to back up his claim that the property needed a professional clean or that it was in an appealing state when we left.

His only evidence took the form of some random receipts from B&Q and a scrawled hand-written note, in which he threatened to take me to court if the TDS didn't find in his favour.

If he'd done what we agreed, he'd have got a professional clean and received £300 towards re-decoration costs, even though he wasn't entitled to it. But, he was greedy and mendacious, and now he has nothing.

Ultimately, the matter of the money we'd agreed to pay the cleaner - which is where this all started - never came into it.

My top tip - take professional advice if you can. There's plenty of information out there from Shelter or the TDS. Most of the advice I received here was judgemental and just plain wrong, and I'm glad I didn't follow it, because I'd be £642 worse off now if I had.

Merry Christmas.

Guest101

I'd suggest your ex LL was (clearly by your description of his evidence) was inept, and had the evidence pack been more robust, you would not have won.


With that said, congrats. Just in time for Christmas, enjoy.

RAS

Amazing story.

If you had actually listened to the initial advice on here, people would have guided you through the process you have taken.

But having put everyone's backs up and wasted their time sniping, no-one had the opportunity to even cover matters like betterment.