Corbynomics: A Dystopia

Moby

westernpromise wrote: »

Agreed, it's about judgment. He may have genuinely changed his opinions since then - although hatred for groups that they then demonise is the stock in trade of the left, so I doubt it. For a long time the left was adamant that the old were deeply vulnerable until they decided that they had money that could be expropriated, turned on a sixpence and started to hate them instead.

Eventually it is everyone's turn to be hated by the left.

Whereas the tories are pure gentle souls who love us all:rotfl:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/10/tories-urgently-investigating-after-mp-uses-n-word-at-public-event
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/may/02/conservatives-philippa-stroud-gay-cure

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/8159737/Tory-peer-claims-welfare-changes-encourage-poor-to-breed.html

Moby

Fella wrote: »

Good to see you still can't bring yourself to acknowledge it when you're soundly beaten in an argument (or a referendum).

Had it been a Tory MP the Corbynistas would be braying for his resignation. And you certainly wouldn't be on here trying to defend it.

It only makes news because he's Labour whereas such bigotry is the stuff of common parlance in the Tory Party as you know perfectly well.

Moby

Boredatwrork wrote: »

I totally agree Moby, as a decent society we have to take care of the vulnerable, and its the right thing to do to have some kind of safety net for those who fall on hard times.
But it should be basic supplies, bus vouchers, food vouchers, not cold hard cash to allow people to make future bad decisions (many who made bad decisions that got them into their mess), and if the left want more support with this, these are the steps they should be advocating,
Giving cash to people who on the face of it use the cash to further a lifestyle that got them into this mess is not going to solve a problem.
You also forget the argument that many people would rather spend their hard earned money on their own children, I have worked 12 hour shifts for a number of years, I have very limited access to my child because of time limitations, I have a friend who chooses to be unemployed and does very sporadic temporary work (he is perfectly healthy), why should my money support him, what does he do in return? He lives in a house partially paid by the government, in a more desirable town to mine, and inturn his children are in a better catchment area than mine. He is often down the park with his kids (which his wife confessed they pretty much had the third to get a free upgrade on their house) while I am slaving away to put food on my (and it appears theirs) dinner table, this is anecdotal I know, but it does make the blood boil somewhat. Unsurprisingly he is a big fan of socialism, I try to avoid this topic with him for my own sanity.

My question is how do we determine who is vulnerable, the Torys are seen as meddling and 'evil' if they dare even mention the issue, yet they are condemned also for ignoring it (the same as the NHS)
The left don't appear to distinguish between legitimate cases and non legitimate cases and prefer to paint them all as needy, poor and vulnerable and beyond criticism or scrutiny, they play identity politics etc to gain support.
Your solution appears to be keep pouring money in no questions asked, I don't see that as solution and as a tax payer (like millions of others), it is our right to ask difficult questions as to where the money is going, of course any changes are going to play into any claimants perception of being abused, which then garners support from the left, so it is impossible to really determine whats legit and what isn't, and this is the issue the left have to reconcile, the left are doing the most damage to this country in my opinion, by refusing to support the idea of separating the wheat from the chaff, they are the ones who allows anyone to cry wolf to become a claimant, they are the ones denying legitimate cases as the money has to be shared more widely, this is where moderate people say enough is enough, and this is where the left to a large extent are seen as victims of their own making.

I read your very judgemental treatise and saw who thanked you for it and came away with the feeling that you and your thankers try desperately hard to avoid being seen as self interested by appealing to reason and rationality. Doesn't work though because the very fact that you care so much about how your tax money is spent exposes your philosophy on life. You are also very judgemental of your friend imo. I wonder what he thinks of you? Look at the language you use when giving your view of his situation. His wife 'virtually confessed'...makes my blood boil.....I slave away to put food on the table, he's always down the park with his kids,etc etc. How are you able to be friends with someone you resent so much amazes me!

The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith

The separation of the wheat from the chaff is having serious consequences for genuine claimants, some have been sanctioned and are suffering for months with nothing. Universal credit claimants have to wait six weeks and build up debts that they can't afford or go hungry meantime....but it's worth it because we must see who is genuine because the most important thing is how my money is spent! Also don't forget not just tories pay taxes.... although listening to some of them you'd think otherwise.

Fella

Labour MPs are now calling for Jared O'Mara to be suspended.

Corbyn, unsurprisingly, will have to be forced to do anything. He can't bear to take orders. If this follows the pattern of similar incidents he'll skulk out of sight for as long as possible & not comment (don't expect to see him on a stage with his hands in the air this week). Finally when the pressure gets too much he'll then begrudgingly take action, probably a suspension rather than a sacking & a promise of a "full investigation".

I'm betting this will happen before the week is out. We'll see.

mrginge

Moby wrote: »

It only makes news because he's Labour whereas such bigotry is the stuff of common parlance in the Tory Party as you know perfectly well.

Looks like someone’s been on the momentum course ‘how to turn any negative into a thinly veiled attack on the tories’

Fella

It just get's worse for O'Mara, today's revelations are even more unpleasant than the racism & homophobia of yesterday:

https://www.order-order.com

Arklight

Boredatwrork wrote: »

It eludes possibly more to culture not colour. And if one particular demographic subscribes to a certain way of life more than another, then it will play into the statistics, there is no point pretending its race issue if the stats are there to back it up,
I have no idea the motivations of the original poster, but that is of little importance, the stats show their is a clear link regardless and that's what should be focused on.

There isn't a "black culture" any more than there is a white culture.


A working family from Ghana living next to a troubled West Indian family on benefits has no more in common with them than you do. But because the UK has a seam of institutional racism that tends to stick people with black skin into ghettos, the Ghanaian family is a million times more likely to wind up living next to them than you.


Try growing up in a dump where you if you walk in the wrong street you can stabbed, going to schools that focus on crowd control rather than education, and being 20 times more likely to be stopped by the police than a white person who lives a 5 minute drive away, and 9 times more likely to be jailed for a minor offence they'd be let off for, and see how well you do in life.

Fella

Arklight wrote: »

But because the UK has a seam of institutional racism

The UK is less racist than the vast majority of other countries in the world. Our acceptance of other cultures is off the scale compared to most of them.

gadgetmind

Fella wrote: »

The UK is less racist than the vast majority of other countries in the world. Our acceptance of other cultures is off the scale compared to most of them.

I might have agreed with you until I saw the results of the EU referendum and what followed.

westernpromise

Moby wrote: »

It only makes news because he's Labour whereas such bigotry is the stuff of common parlance in the Tory Party as you know perfectly well.

And there is the narcissism of the left for all to see. When you do it, it's fine because you're all such nice caring people really. It's only other people who are bad.