Corbynomics: A Dystopia

ruggedtoast

Why has this turned into an argument about the IRA? Jeremy Corbyn is not in favour of the IRA - no one is.

He has been a vocal critic of the British government in the past which drum banging Daily Mailers can't understand as anything other than treason but then they aren't really his target demographic.

Can this debate not return to mulling the basic tenets of Corbynism or is it another discussion that is completely derailed by Clapton and his tedious one note tautology?

Out,_Vile_Jelly

ruggedtoast wrote: »

.

Can this debate not return to mulling the basic tenets of Corbynism or is it another discussion that is completely derailed by Clapton and his tedious one note tautology?

If Labour are to win the next election they need to convince Middle England that their policies are reasonable, practical and responsible.

If you're in a public position it's just thick to use words like "honour" when talking about murderers, regardless of the complex social history behind the situation. This type of language shows that McDonnell and Corbyn are excellent when speaking to their home crowd, but have no chance of winning anyone else over.

Anyone can get a cheer out of a bunch of lefties by throwing in key buzzwords like "poor oppressed Palestine", "evil bankers", "the 1%", and the "nasty party" etc. How is Corbyn proposing to win back Scotland? How did Labour come to lose Scotland in the first place?

ruggedtoast

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

If Labour are to win the next election they need to convince Middle England that their policies are reasonable, practical and responsible.

If you're in a public position it's just thick to use words like "honour" when talking about murderers, regardless of the complex social history behind the situation. This type of language shows that McDonnell and Corbyn are excellent when speaking to their home crowd, but have no chance of winning anyone else over.

Anyone can get a cheer out of a bunch of lefties by throwing in key buzzwords like "poor oppressed Palestine", "evil bankers", "the 1%", and the "nasty party" etc. How is Corbyn proposing to win back Scotland? How did Labour come to lose Scotland in the first place?

Well it certainly wasn't because of Corbynism.

One would imagine the Scots were too smart to be duped into continuing voting for Blairism, a doctrine which is diametrically opposed to their own, and in fact anyone who isn't in the 1%, self interests.

All that is happening in England is a delayed version of Scotland. Labour needs to provide a credible socialist opposition to the crass exploitative neoliberal creed of the Tories.

Thisv will happen under Corbyn but first he, and the membership, need to give the PLP a long overdue enema.

Personally I consider myself to be on the right side of the equation by being the one of the ones holding the hose.

Wouldn't you rather be holding the hose, Jelly?

beecher2

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

How is Corbyn proposing to win back Scotland? How did Labour come to lose Scotland in the first place?

Scottish Labour are under pressure to prove that they're not just a branch office (which of course they are), and so Corbyn seems to not have got overly involved in what's going on. They are pretty much dead north of the border and maybe he knows that.

As for why they lost Scotland - years of taking voters for granted, cronyism, laziness, MPs getting too comfy in Scotland and forgetting they were there to represent people and not to feather their own nests, and most importantly their decision to campaign shoulder to shoulder with the Conservative party under the Better Together banner during the referendum.

Of course there's also the fact we have a credible alternative in the SNP who most see as capable administrators and who many believe put Scotland's interests first.

I suppose the question is, how can they ever recover in Scotland? Only be becoming a separate party and maybe even having to campaign for independence.

Out,_Vile_Jelly

ruggedtoast wrote: »

W
Thisv will happen under Corbyn but first he, and the membership, need to give the PLP a long overdue enema.

Personally I consider myself to be on the right side of the equation by being the one of the ones holding the hose.

Wouldn't you rather be holding the hose, Jelly?

I'm not a member of any political party and have never voted Labour; I'm just a bemused onlooker.

ruggedtoast

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

I'm not a member of any political party and have never voted Labour; I'm just a bemused onlooker.

What you are onlooking is a severely constipated and ungrateful patient about to get a vigorous unblocking at very high pressure.

TheNickster

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

If Labour are to win the next election they need to convince Middle England that their policies are reasonable, practical and responsible.

If you're in a public position it's just thick to use words like "honour" when talking about murderers, regardless of the complex social history behind the situation. This type of language shows that McDonnell and Corbyn are excellent when speaking to their home crowd, but have no chance of winning anyone else over.

But an ex member of the IRA, Martin McGuiness, has in effect been 'honoured' since McDonnell made those remarks. He worked successfully from 2007 with First Minister Iain Paisley as deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland and has been so ever since. He has been presented to TheQueen and very recently met and shook hands with Theresa May.

It is all very well getting on your high horse but surely the objective is to keep the peace and not keep stirring what has been an extremely controversial and difficult period of British history.

As Churchill once said "jaw jaw is better than war war.

This is worth reading:-

http://www.johncunyus.com/jawjaw.html

Nelson Mandella was once, even in this country, considered a terrorist by some.

gadgetmind

ruggedtoast wrote: »

All that is happening in England is a delayed version of Scotland. Labour needs to provide a credible socialist opposition to the crass exploitative neoliberal creed of the Tories.

Maybe they do but it won't get them elected.

Read Labour's own "Emerging From The Darkness" report to see why. The majority of voters (including those voting labour!) think that the current government is doing a good job for "families like theirs" and that Labour is a party for "down and outs".

Will Corbyn address this? I doubt he'll even knowledge it as it doesn't fit his political views.

TrickyTree83

gadgetmind wrote: »

Maybe they do but it won't get them elected.

Read Labour's own "Emerging From The Darkness" report to see why. The majority of voters (including those voting labour!) think that the current government is doing a good job for "families like theirs" and that Labour is a party for "down and outs".

Will Corbyn address this? I doubt he'll even knowledge it as it doesn't fit his political views.

My old man and his eldest daughter have been Labour voters all their lives.

They think Corbyn is a joke and won't be voting for Labour because of him.

He may appeal to a section of the populace, but that appears to be the extent of his appeal.

ruggedtoast

gadgetmind wrote: »

Maybe they do but it won't get them elected.

Read Labour's own "Emerging From The Darkness" report to see why. The majority of voters (including those voting labour!) think that the current government is doing a good job for "families like theirs" and that Labour is a party for "down and outs".

Will Corbyn address this? I doubt he'll even knowledge it as it doesn't fit his political views.

So a report commissioned by the Blairite PLP has concluded that Labour needs to be more like the Conservative Party to get back into power.

This is everything that is wrong with the Parliamentary Labour Party's arrogant infiltration of social democracy and why they are so comprehensively having their backsides handed to them by the membership, which is now huge.

Britain neither wants nor needs another Tory Party. Labour does need to admit to what a total disaster Blairitism has been ( so your report is half right).



Yes just perfect, a year into a solely Tory government (with a majority of a colossal 12 seats) and we have chaos caused by yet another botched referendum, sterling tanking, the economy shrivelling like a slug with salt poured on it, the NHS in crisis, disabled and poor people killing themselves in despair over welfare cuts and hardly anyone able to afford a decent place to live.

Meanwhile 0.6% of Tory supporters and donors own 50% of the country. Many of whom are actually on the civil list.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1328270/A-Britain-STILL-belongs-aristocracy.html

The report does point out that Tory voters don't actually care about any of this, either because they are rich and it doesn't affect them or they were duped into thinking that they are going to be rich if they vote Tory.

A turn of events I would suggest that even the thickest tax credit claiming nail bar owning Tory voter must be beginning to realise is very unlikely to happen without a change of government.