Corbynomics: A Dystopia

ruggedtoast

mayonnaise wrote: »

Welcome back, toastie.

They expect me to be cowed and meek. Like Winston at the end of 1984.

They can think again.

TheNickster

CLAPTON wrote: »

which doesn't address the actual issue of whether the Corbyn/McDonnell/Abbott clique consider the IRA as freedom fighters and/or whether they see the murders as 'justified' by the circumstances.

amasing that some-one can try to summarise the NI situation without once mentioning the existance of the protestants.

and the IRA didn't 'attack' an unarmed population : they murdered them deliberately.

Since you mentioned the protestants.

"The (protestant) UDA/UFF was responsible for more than 400 deaths. The vast majority of its victims were Irish Catholic civilians killed at random, in what the group called retaliation for IRA actions or attacks on Protestants. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Defence_Association

Terrorists or murdering 'freedom fighters'?

CLAPTON

TheNickster wrote: »

Since you mentioned the protestants.

"The (protestant) UDA/UFF was responsible for more than 400 deaths. The vast majority of its victims were Irish Catholic civilians killed at random, in what the group called retaliation for IRA actions or attacks on Protestants.

Terrorists or freedom fighters?

I am mainly concerned about the leadership of our official opposition party and their suitability for actual office, rather than the specific policitics in NI.

However since you ask, I consider UDA/UFF etc as terrorists killers just like the IRA killers.
There were many wrongs in NI that could have been changed through peaceful action.

TheNickster

CLAPTON wrote: »

I am mainly concerned about the leadership of our official opposition party and their suitability for actual office, rather than the specific policitics in NI.

However since you ask, I consider UDA/UFF etc as terrorists killers just like the IRA killers.
There were many wrongs in NI that could have been changed through peaceful action.

It seems to me that you are more concerned with political ****stirring.

CLAPTON

TheNickster wrote: »

It seems to me that you are more concerned with political ****stirring.

I consider the whether or not, that senior labour party politicians support terrorists is of political significance. You appear not to agree.

TheNickster

CLAPTON wrote: »

I am mainly concerned about the leadership of our official opposition party and their suitability for actual office, rather than the specific policitics in NI.

However since you ask, I consider UDA/UFF etc as terrorists killers just like the IRA killers.
There were many wrongs in NI that could have been changed through peaceful action.

I consider the whether or not, that senior labour party politicians support terrorists is of political significance. You appear not to agree.

The blanket refusal by the British Government to talk to the IRA during the 70's, eighties and part of the nineties until they ceased their violent actions, I believe, was a mistake and possibly delayed the peace process by many years, Therefore I cannot condemn in the way you do Corbyn and co for their actions in regard to the IRA.

CLAPTON

TheNickster wrote: »

The blanket refusal by the British Government to talk to the IRA during the 70's, eighties and part of the nineties until they ceased their violent actions, I believe, was a mistake and possibly delayed the peace process by many years, Therefore I cannot condemn in the way you do Corbyn and co for their actions in regard to the IRA.

I'm sure many mistakes were made.

Whether one considers that the murders of ordinary people was justified is a valid issue to judge politicians.
I fully accept that many may consider the killings was justified by both the history and the end product; personally I don't but I believe Corbyn et al do even if now they are now reluctant to discuss their beliefs.

ukcarper

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Ha! You probably aren't very keen on renationalising companies, because your boomer generation has done very nicely thank you - from all the windfalls you got from the British state run companies being sold off to the private sector.

Absurdly, some of these companies are now all or partly owned by foreign state owned corporation.

A large and growing number of people reject the greedy money obsessed neoliberal doctrine. Especially, oddly enough, the ones who havent benefited from it,

I worked for a Nationalized company and did not want it to be sold off, but that's not the same as renationalising them.

TheNickster

CLAPTON wrote: »

I'm sure many mistakes were made.

Whether one considers that the murders of ordinary people was justified is a valid issue to judge politicians.
I fully accept that many may consider the killings was justified by both the history and the end product; personally I don't but I believe Corbyn et al do even if now they are now reluctant to discuss their beliefs.

In 2003 in defending his comments about the Bobby Sands and the IRA, John McDonnell wrote the following:-

Let me be clear, I abhor the killing of innocent human beings. My argument was that republicans had the right to honour those who had brought about this process of negotiation which had led to peace. Having achieved this central objective now it was time to move on. The future for achieving the nationalists' goals is through the political process and in particular through the Northern Ireland assembly elections... Irish republicans have to face the fact that the use of violence has resulted in unforgivable atrocities. No cause is worth the loss of a child's life. No amount of political theory will justify what has been perpetrated on the victims of the bombing campaigns.

CLAPTON

TheNickster wrote: »

In 2003 in defending his comments about the Bobby Sands and the IRA, John McDonnell wrote the following:-

at the end of the day one has to make one's own judgement on whether the killings were justified.
you clearly think they were.
Because the people doing the killings agreed to stop i see no reason to honour them.
so you honour them for stop killing
I don't