Huge Fine For Minor Offence

Joyce99

I got a PCN from a london borough for stopping in a yellow box in October 14. The traffic was flowing, but I had to stop for few seconds whilst someone up ahead changed lanes. The lights were green the whole time and remained green long after I moved out of the box, and there was no obstruction.

I appealed, but the PATAS adjudicator upheld the authority’s claims. I got a letter from him later that listed his reasons for refusing my appeal. Most of these were technical and were supported by legislation, as you would expect, but when it came to his response to my appeal for mitigation, which was based on the lights being green all the time, no obstruction etc., he just said “I don’t allow appeals on these grounds”. There was no other clarification to support what is essentially a personal preference and of course his comment implies that another adjudicator would have allowed the appeal, which hardly inspires confidence in the system.

Before the appeal I was under the impression that you only got in trouble if you caused an obstruction in a yellow box and I’ve always made sure to avoid doing that. I’m fortunate enough to have a good driving record, but it’s a long time since I passed my test and I thought it might be a good thing to brush up my driving skills. The Institute of Advanced Motorists run an advanced driving course, but I’m not well off and can’t afford both that and the fine, so I wrote to the authority’s Head of Transport, to ask if the fine money could be put towards an advanced drivers’ course. After all, what could possibly be a better use of the money? The objective of the fine is met in that I learn to become a better road user, and at the same time support is provided to a worthy charity. I was utterly amazed when he refused to interact at all. He told me that a reply had been sent, but I never received the letter or a copy of it, despite asking more than once, and in the end he just washed his hands of it.

This is extraordinarily arrogant behaviour for someone who is allegedly answerable to the public, so I complained the then acting CEO, and sent him a copy of my original request. I didn’t get a reply from him either, but I did receive a letter from someone in the parking section which didn’t answer my query or address the points I made. Bizarrely, this letter claimed that the letter to the CEO had not been received, despite its being sent by recorded delivery. I sent another copy of the letters, again by recorded delivery, but still no response until a demand came from Northampton County Court to say that bailiffs have been appointed to break into my house.

I am now at my wits’ end. Can anyone please help? Do you know of anyone I can complain to? This is such a big punishment for such a small infraction, I can’t believe that public bodies are allowed to behave like this in Britain. And since when have mitigating circumstances stopped being taken into account when fitting the punishment to the crime?

Marktheshark

Bailiffs can not break in your house, they would need a criminal warrant for that.

rich13348

Ouch if I were you I would walk into the CEOs office and had the letter directly to him and wait while he reads it. Although I'm sure I would probably get kicked out by security.

ChumLee

Marktheshark wrote: »

Bailiffs can not break in your house, they would need a criminal warrant for that.

What if the OP has already signed a Reg15?

phill99

I don't know what your issue is. You appealed. The appeal was denied and you had to pay the fine. You haven't paid the fine. It seems you have wilfully refused to pay the fine. The baliffs have been sent in as a result of you refusing to pay the fine.

You appear to think that going on a course is in lieu of a fine. The adjudicator will not enter onto correspondence as he has no powers to allow this. You are effectively asking him to quash the fine, even after your appeal was denied.

you are acting arrogantly. If you had paid the fine, ypu would not have the baliffs knocking on the door demanding not just payment of the fine, but their fees.

Your heading of 'huge fine' is wrong. Its the same fine as it always was. You are now paying baliffs fees.

Your approach, attitude and arrogance beggar belief.

AdrianC

Joyce99 wrote: »

Before the appeal I was under the impression that you only got in trouble if you caused an obstruction in a yellow box

Remember learning the Highway Code to pass your test? It wasn't a once-then-forget thing. Rule 174. Not a difficult one to wrap your head around.
https://www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/road-junctions-170-to-183

You were in the wrong. You were fined for being in the wrong. You appealed. Your appeal was turned down. You didn't pay the fine. What did you think would happen...?

EdGasket

How much was the fine?

I'm afraid these yellow box things covered by cameras are a licence to print money. I expect a clever lawyer could get you off but you might not get costs. Don't know if the pepipoo board has any ideas or whether they only do parking issues?

DominicH

Joyce99 wrote: »

After all, what could possibly be a better use of the money? The objective of the fine is met in that I learn to become a better road user

I think this is where your argument breaks down. The objectives of the fine are (a) punishment, and (b) to deter other people from breaking the rules. Not to make you, personally, a better road user.

phill99

EdGasket wrote: »

How much was the fine?

I'm afraid these yellow box things covered by cameras are a licence to print money. I expect a clever lawyer could get you off but you might not get costs. Don't know if the pepipoo board has any ideas or whether they only do parking issues?

That is academic now. The appeal has been heard and dismissed. There is no more appeals process to go through. Clever lawyer or not, there is no longer an opportunity to object.

IamNotAllowedToUseMyName

The point the OP missed is that the yellow box is to stop the possibility of obstruction. As they had entered it and stopped they could not predict the future as to whether this would later result in an obstruction.

My passenger today commented on how I had stopped behind a traffic light stop line where there was a yellow box in front which had no cleared - I not only accounted for the yellow box, but that I also could not clear the stop line without entering the yellow box.

If you have an attitude of trying to beat the system because what is the problem, the system will beat you. Once you learn that a few feet don't make any difference, you chill out.

I was travelling back from Oxford by the back roads (Stow) as the A34 was messed up so it did not seem worth getting straight to the M40. Just north of Oxford a distinctive car muscled pat on a hill - I was in a van limited to 50mph on single carriageway roads. Just before Warwick, I caught up with the car who bizarrely brake tested me when I'd never been within 2 seconds of him (hence brake test was pointless) - I am hoping it was a Vauxhall software malfunction on their hybrid.

The lesson is that over 40 odd miles, sticking to 50 limit kept up with a car trying to drive at 60.

I passed him across the M40 due to good lane choices. A single junction is not worth fretting over, follow the rules.

Nodding_Donkey

Am I missing something here. The OP entered a box junction before the exit was clear and had to stop in it. That is what the fine is for.

Good

People that stop in box junctions deserve everything they get.