VCS PCN charge for stopping at Liverpool John Lennon airport

Havors · 20 August 2015 at 8:39PM

Hi guys,

I've been trying to read the newbie section and Im still confused. I don't know whether I should just ignore this PCN from VCS or appeal it?

I have been away and only just got the notice today which was sent out on the 5th of August 2015. It is now 20th August 2015. If I do need to appeal can I do it via email? Does it have to be via letter?

I am away again tomorrow for another 4 days and I am worried I will miss this appeal deadline if I do indeed have to appeal.

Can I just ignore this notice? If I have to appeal what template should I use?

Any help would be greatly appreciated as my head is completely battered at the moment and I have only had the notice today and im away again tomorrow so I am really worried about this.

Thanks

Redx · 20 August 2015 at 8:43PM

the notice should tell you how to appeal it, so read it and do so using the template letter from the NEWBIES sticky thread

they have 6 years to take it to court

no idea why you think IGNORE it is a good idea, not since the law changed in 2012

appeal it using the manner they describe using the appeal template, unchanged , then go away for 4 days, do the research when you come back

Havors · 20 August 2015 at 9:02PM

Thank you for the quick reply.

I have just been reading through the POFA 2012 paragraph 9 and it states:

"(2)The notice must—

(a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;"

The notice I have been sent just says I stopped and does not say for how long. Would this be classed as an "omission" in wording?? Or is that just wishful thinking?

The_Slithy_Tove · 20 August 2015 at 9:16PM

Forget POFA. VCS don't use it as JLA isn't Relevant Land.

Havors · 20 August 2015 at 9:18PM

Relevant land?? surely the relevant land just means the road which is owned/run by JLA??

EDIT: oh I just read the "relevant land" section. Still confused though haha so the roads around JLA are not "relevant land"?

what does this mean in regards to them issuing the PCN are they even allowed??

Havors · 20 August 2015 at 9:24PM

On a side note: VCS are not a member of AOS.... does this hold any relevance?

hoohoo · 20 August 2015 at 9:24PM

VCS dont use keeper liability, so if the driver is not the keeper it is a slam dunk win.

Appeal on the grounds
1) There was not contract with the driver; the signs cannot be safely read at driving speed
2) There is no keeper liability
3) The charge is for breach of contract, is not a genuine per-estimate of loss, and is not saved as a penalty by ParkingEye v Beavis
4) The charge is a unfair term as defined by UTCCR.
5) The signage fails consumer contract information requirements

They will reject the appeal. You then appeal to the IAS, costing them £20. As this is a kangaroo court, they will also reject, but they will not take this to court because when a judge laughs it out of court it destroys their business model.

Havors · 20 August 2015 at 9:33PM

hoohoo wrote: »

VCS dont use keeper liability, so if the driver is not the keeper it is a slam dunk win.

Appeal on the grounds
1) There was not contract with the driver; the signs cannot be safely read at driving speed
2) There is no keeper liability
3) The charge is for breach of contract, is not a genuine per-estimate of loss, and is not saved as a penalty by ParkingEye v Beavis
4) The charge is a unfair term as defined by UTCCR.
5) The signage fails consumer contract information requirements

They will reject the appeal. You then appeal to the IAS, costing them £20. As this is a kangaroo court, they will also reject, but they will not take this to court because when a judge laughs it out of court it destroys their business model.

Thanks, some useful information there.

Would you recommend not using the template later then? or just remove the parts regarding POFA etc?

Could I just say I wish to appeal and just state the 5 statements you have mentioned? and then just go through the motions?

Thanks in advance

Havors · 20 August 2015 at 9:50PM

How does this sounds as an appeal against VCS?

Date: 20/08/2015

Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. XXXXXXXXX

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car, on these main grounds:

a) There was not contract with the driver; the signs cannot be safely read at driving speed.

b) Your 'Notice' fails to comply with the POFA so there can be no keeper liability. There is no statement of the time the vehicle was allegedly stopped for, as required under Paragraph 9 (2)a of the POFA 2012.

c) The charge is for breach of contract, is not a genuine per-estimate of loss, and
is not saved as a penalty by ParkingEye v Beavis.

d) The charge is a unfair term as defined by UTCCR.

e) The sign-age fails consumer contract information requirements.

Formal challenge:
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 or cancel the charge.

''Drop hands'' offer:
The charge is baseless but I realise that you may have nominal postage costs. Equally, I have incurred costs for responding to your junk mail dressed up to mimic a parking ticket. It is clear that my costs and yours, at this point, do not exceed £15 so this is a formal “drop hands” offer. I remind you of the duty to mitigate any loss, so withdraw the spurious charge within 35 days and I will not pursue you for my costs.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,

Ralph-y · 21 August 2015 at 12:21AM

if you want to appeal to the PPC ... VCS the form of the soft / first appeal hardly matters .... it will be turned down whatever .........

we recommend that you use the appeal found in the newbie thread as is .........

there is a small debate on the forum about how to handle PPC's who are aligned to the IPC , the standard forum advice is to do the soft appeal but not bother with the kangaroo court at IAS

my thoughts .......
The scammers that infest JLA are in cahoots with said airports as its is a (allegedly) mutual financial arrangement ....

Go back a year or two and you would win this at a POPLA appeal ..... however in the world of PPC's they can create another trade body (the IPC) that have a (again allegedly) kangaroo court :eek: (the IAS) The IAS seem to treat appeals as a lottery 80%+ loose irrespective of the evidence.......

you therefore can (after reading the below) choose to follow the forum advice ,and ignore .... or in IMHO do the appeals as a paper trail.

VCS did try out their first small claims court case over such ....and as predict that they pulled out before the trial ..... . They did not dare try placing this before a real judge! and have not yet tried again ..... I wounder why ?

VCS PCN charge for stopping at Liverpool John Lennon airport

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