PCN Liverpool John Lennon airport 20th Feb received 6th of July

dubk

I have received two PCNs in the last week, I am going to appeal both.

The second PCN was received over 5 months after the date on the photos they show on the notice. Is this valid? Why is the ticket issued and sent out so long after the date? Should I contest it on the grounds of this delayed timescale? Or should I appeal on the grounds of the penalty not being a genuine pre-estimate of loss?

Thanks

Redx

yes its valid, for up to 6 years from the "transgression"

use the template letter from the newbies thread (and read all that thread while you are at it)

add a note that as this is outside the time limit for POFA 2012 , so they should chase the driver (who will not be named) - you are the RK , dont mention who was driving

they have 6 years to chase the driver , if they knew who it was , so dont tell em

plus, read parking pranskters 2015 blog about JLA and this sc@m

any later appeals (if any) would be contested on pofa 2012 non-compliance (not relevant land) , no contract , poor signage , not a gpeol , not a parking event

bazster

dubk wrote: »

I have received two PCNs in the last week, I am going to appeal both.

If they're both for JLA you are wasting your time, the appeals process is a sham.

dubk wrote: »

The second PCN was received over 5 months after the date on the photos they show on the notice. Is this valid?

No it isn't valid, but not because of the timescale. It's invalid because you never entered into a contract with them, the signs they claim create a contract are sheer entrapment.

dubk wrote: »

Why is the ticket issued and sent out so long after the date?

Incompetence.

dubk wrote: »

Should I contest it on the grounds of this delayed timescale?

Nope, that would be pointless.

dubk wrote: »

Or should I appeal on the grounds of the penalty not being a genuine pre-estimate of loss?

Equally pointless.

Ralph-y

there is some debate on the forum about how to handle PPC's who are aligned to the IPC , the standard forum advice is to do the soft appeal but not bother with the kangaroo court at IAS

my thoughts .......
The scammers that infest JLA are in cahoots with said airport as its is a (allegedly) mutual financial arrangement ....

Go back a year or two and you would win this at a POPLA appeal ..... however in the world of PPC's they can create another trade body (the IPC) that have a (again allegedly) kangaroo court :eek: (the IAS)

you therefore can (after reading the below) chose to follow the forum advice , or in IMHO do the appeals as a paper trail.

VCS did try out their first small claims court case over such ....and as predict that they pulled out before the trial ..... . They did not dare try placing this before a real judge!




Please do not let this put you off ..... read through some of the below for background information ....


this is a link that Redx was talking about (there is another if you search through)

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/vehicle-control-systems-signage-at.html


http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=5191690

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=5132921

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=5192051

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=5130131

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=5177878

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=5180656

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=5177198

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=5177258

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=5110349

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=5171250

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=5156653

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=5152822

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=5131416

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=5149455

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=5148343

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=5105940

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=5139477






Ralph:cool:

Umkomaas

Great links resource Ralph-y. I think it will help new posters better understand the issues and how they might deal with their own LJLA parking charge.

I've bookmarked it for future reference - and due credit recorded alongside it for every time I copy and paste the links block.

bod1467

Just to correct some incorrect definitions ...

* IPA does not exist ... except as India Pale Ale etc., but not in respect of private parking.

* IPC is an ATA (Approved Trade Association) - the other main ATA for parking is the BPA.

* IAS (Independent Appeals Service) is the kangaroo court offered by the IPC. (POPLA is the appeals service offered by the BPA).

Guys_Dad

The IAS use the reason for not applying RK provisions of POFA out of time citing that "in all probability the RK was driving". However, I have not seen one case where the RK admitted to being the passenger and was being dropped off/picked up and they then refused to supply the driver's name.

If the RK also stated that they have airline ticket evidence to back that up and if the IAS choose to ignore this, you look forward to exposing their Australian marsupial court practices in a proper court!

dubk

Dear Sir/Madam

Re: PCN No. VC04815048

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car, on these main grounds:

a). The sum is disproportionate, does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss, nor is it a core price term.
b) The sum is extravagant and unconscionable and cannot be justified.
c). There is no evidence that you have any interest in the land. I will complain to the landowner about your aggressive ticketing.
[d). Your 'Notice' fails to comply with the POFA so there can be no keeper liability. Reading their letter compared to schedule 4 information paragraph 9, i feel they have changed the wording from previous threads and this may not be relevant any more??
e). I believe that the signs were not seen/are ambiguous and the predominant purpose is to deter so there is no contract to pay this charge, which is a penalty.

Formal challenge
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 or cancel the charge. I will only appeal further if you offer POPLA, the only independent ADR with a scrutiny panel and trained Assessors. The 'IAS' offered by IPC firms will not be used, for well-documented reasons.

''Drop hands'' offer
The charge is baseless but I realise that you may have nominal postage costs. Equally, I have incurred costs for responding to your junk mail dressed up to mimic a parking ticket. It is clear that my costs and yours, at this point, do not exceed £15 so this is a formal “drop hands” offer. I remind you of the duty to mitigate any loss, so withdraw the spurious charge within 35 days and I will not pursue you for my costs.

Breach of CCRs
I hereby give notice of withdrawal from this alleged 'contract' which was never properly offered nor expressly agreed. This 'contract' is cancelled and any obligations now end.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,


Having read and seen many letter examples, i feel this gets to the point without too much detail or too much content. If you feel I have missed or something is not relevant please advise?
I intend sending this for both PCNs, two separate letters. With a complaint to JLA and DVLA.

Despite some posts, I do believe in fighting against these unscrupulous low lifes.
Thanks

The_Deep

the standard forum advice is to do the soft appeal but not bother with the kangaroo court at IAS

No, we are divided, some, including CM, say do not bother, others including myself, say give them grief, appeal.