I don't want children - Am I selfish?

kboss2010

zagfles wrote: »

Studies like that miss the point completely. For a start, you can't compare the "happiness" level of people who choose to have children with those who don't and then assume people would have the "happiness" level of the other group if they'd made the other decision! Which is what these type of articles always seems to imply.

That would be like a study that shows people who like knitting are generally happier than people who like extreme sports and suggesting that extreme sports junkies should take up knitting because it'll make them happier :rotfl:Again, you miss the point completely. I've got a friend who's a mad Man United fan. As far as I can see, it causes him nothing but stress. I've seen him watching a match, he gets angry all the time, foul, bad referreeing decision, the only visible sign of any joy is when they score, but it doesn't last long, then it's back to stress and tension, until the final whistle.

I'm sure studies would show he's less happy than someone like me who watches football without really caring too much about who wins, and enjoys displays of skill whoever scores.

But's that's not the point, he couldn't simply choose be like me, it's not his personality, it's not who he is.

Oh I don't doubt that often these kinds of studies may be flawed in their method but it's an interesting topic and one I'd like to see more data collected on.

I don't see how I miss the point that living a more stressful life would make me less happy unless I was an adrenaline junkie. Kids = extra stress be that childcare provisions, financial provisions, education quality, discipline, constant attention... the list is endless.

Maybe it's the perfectionist in me, but I don't want to give up my standard of living to give a child the standard of living I think they should have. Kids deserve a nice place to live, a decent education and as much help as you can give them and these things are expensive.

kboss2010

zagfles wrote: »

Though I'd disagree with this - I think it's quite common and usually ends badly. I've known blokes who show no interest in kids who become parents just because it's what their wife wants - and it usually ends badly.

I remember a conversation with a neighbour, just after we had our first. Pushing baby in pram, he stopped for a chat, he talked about all sorts of crap but all the time I was thinking - my new baby is in the pram, why are you showing no interest, surely you want to see her, why are you talking about rubbish like football and traffic when my new baby who you've never seen is right here! And he went off without even having a look or asking any questions about her! Unbelievable I thought. But then walking off and recovering from this massive snub, I came to the blatently obvious conclusion that some people simply have no interest in babies.

The point being - a year later, his wife gave birth! Couldn't believe it. Bumped into him few weeks after and again he seemed to show no interest in even his own baby! Thought - they'll split up soon and the CSA will have to chase him. Was right - he's now abroad and no-one seems to know where, and she's a single parent.

I agree wholeheartedly. It's interesting to hear what most men actually think of babies and children, I've found that once they know you're not a 'fawning over babies' kind of woman how much they'll wax lyrical about how little interest they have in their own children beyond 'but I can pass my DIY/football skills onto my son'. Sorry but that's nowhere near a good enough reason to have kids in my book!

Lol, if you think it's bad as a bloke, being a woman in a situation where you're expected to coo over a new baby is worse! My friends know I don't like babies/children but if I ignore them I'm regarded as barely human and if I put on an interested smile I'm apparently lying about my dislike of them because how could I possibly be nice to them if I don't like them? Just because I'd prefer not to be around most children doesn't mean I have to be mean to them. I remember adults like that when I was a kid and they were horrible.

FBaby

If you enjoy the rewards that brings then fantastic but, personally, the occasional bedtime hug and piece of refrigerator art isn't worth the mess, stress & burden.

I'm puzzled that you seem to have a pretty good understanding about how stressful and demanding raising children can be, but from the quote above, seem to totally unudermined the joy that comes with happiness.

Before I go to sleep, I always try to think of things that make me happy and give a sense of peace before I nod off. I will feel as contented remembering my honeymoon with my husband as I will remembering how I felt when I read my kids' school reports full of compliments.

I really don't know why either side has to try to justify how they feel about parenthood. It's not a competition as to who is the happiest. Happiness is about enjoying the things you have achieved, whether that involved becoming a parent or not is irrelevant.

Jagraf

FBaby wrote: »

I'm puzzled that you seem to have a pretty good understanding about how stressful and demanding raising children can be, but from the quote above, seem to totally unudermined the joy that comes with happiness.

Before I go to sleep, I always try to think of things that make me happy and give a sense of peace before I nod off. I will feel as contented remembering my honeymoon with my husband as I will remembering how I felt when I read my kids' school reports full of compliments.

I really don't know why either side has to try to justify how they feel about parenthood. It's not a competition as to who is the happiest. Happiness is about enjoying the things you have achieved, whether that involved becoming a parent or not is irrelevant.

Indeed, happiness is partly not needing to compare your life with someone else's. Happiness is so subjective you can only quantify it yourself.

LameWolf

kboss2010 wrote: »

Lol, if you think it's bad as a bloke, being a woman in a situation where you're expected to coo over a new baby is worse! My friends know I don't like babies/children but if I ignore them I'm regarded as barely human and if I put on an interested smile I'm apparently lying about my dislike of them because how could I possibly be nice to them if I don't like them? Just because I'd prefer not to be around most children doesn't mean I have to be mean to them. I remember adults like that when I was a kid and they were horrible.

I can relate to this; when I was working, there was a sort of "tradition" if someone went off on maternity leave, when they'd had the baby, they brought it into the office, and we were all supposed to go all gooey over it. Worse, the baby would then be passed around so that everyone could hold it.
I'm afraid I was the one who feigned the start of a cold, and excused myself by virtue of "not risking breathing germs over the baby" but the reality was I really, honestly, wasn't the least bit interested; and if I'd had to hold it, I'd have either fled the room screaming or passed out!

bugslet

I've held one once. Briefly. It cried, I nearly did:p.

Give me a puppy though and you can barely prise it out of my hands and so what if it widdles on me.:o

Pretty much sums up that human beings are totally illogical!:)

Bingaling86

I don't want children - I'm 29. People always say 'you'll change your mind' which really angers me. Maybe I will, but that's not for them to say (also, they never say it to men?!?!)

My sister has just had her first and only child, he's adorable and I love him to bits. But I in no way, want one of my own. The work, the money, the lack of freedom? no thanks.

People can think what they like, I really do not care.

kboss2010

bugslet wrote: »

I've held one once. Briefly. It cried, I nearly did:p.

Give me a puppy though and you can barely prise it out of my hands and so what if it widdles on me.:o

Pretty much sums up that human beings are totally illogical!:)

Lol, I went to visit a relative recently who had just had her first. I was infinitely more interested in her dog than the baby. On the way home my boyfriend admitted that he'd been disappointed that she'd put the dog in the other room and kept the baby with us!

Biologically speaking, I think that means we're defective lol

zagfles

kboss2010 wrote: »

Oh I don't doubt that often these kinds of studies may be flawed in their method but it's an interesting topic and one I'd like to see more data collected on.

Didn't you say you were a scientist? These sort of studies lack any sort of scientific credibility. They're not randomised control studies where they take 1000 people, split them into 2 groups of 500, and say to group A - you lot go and procreate, and to group B - you lot get sterilised, and then monitor their "happiness" levels over 30 years.

The groups are self-selected!! People chose which group they're in mainly based on their own desires and needs. A comparison of "happiness" between the two groups is as meaningless as a comparison between those who knit and those who bungee jump. Someone who bungee jumps is not likely to be happier if they took up knitting instead, and someone who knits is not likely to be happier if they took up bungee jumping!

Because their choice of hobby fitted their personality and desires, and virtually all of them would be unhappier if they were forced to change hobby.

It would be same as doing a survey of pet happiness and coming to the conclusion that pets who eat meat are happier than pets who eat vegetables. And then assuming your pet rabbit would therefore be happier if you gave it steak!

I don't see how I miss the point that living a more stressful life would make me less happy unless I was an adrenaline junkie. Kids = extra stress be that childcare provisions, financial provisions, education quality, discipline, constant attention... the list is endless.

Maybe it's the perfectionist in me, but I don't want to give up my standard of living to give a child the standard of living I think they should have. Kids deserve a nice place to live, a decent education and as much help as you can give them and these things are expensive.

That's you. Those who knit will come up for hundreds of perfectly logical and rational reasons not to bungee jump. But that doesn't mean those who bungee jump aren't happier bungee jumping than they would be knitting.

Jagraf

zagfles wrote: »

Those who knit will come up for hundreds of perfectly logical and rational reasons not to bungee jump. But that doesn't mean those who bungee jump aren't happier bungee jumping than they would be knitting.

Except those grannies off the shreddies advert. I reckon they would knit and jump