Apple Pay

Archi_Bald

NFH wrote: »

Barclays is the one that stands out by its absence. Reports suggest that Barclays doesn't want to participate in a service that competes with its Pingit service. However, Apple Pay and Barclays Pingit are two totally different services. Whereas Apple Pay is primarily aimed at retail point-of-sale transactions, Barclays Pingit is primarily aimed at bank-to-bank transfers between mobile phone numbers. The types of payees are very different. I don't see any competition between these two services.

That would make sense, based on what we know about PINGIT today. May be Barclays are working on a new version that would allow POS transactions? If they did, it could be a lot of (their) money down the drain as I doubt people would look to a single bank for this kind of payment service.

NFH

I might have got the answer to my question above about TfL. The industry term for a card number is a PAN (primary account number). TfL told me that I need to obtain my ePAN from my card issuer. I asked Amex US, who said that this is a 15-digit number (same length as an Amex card number), but it would take a month for Amex US to obtain it from Apple. I told them not to bother. From reading a few web pages on the subject, it appears that the Device Account Number, of which I can see the last 5 digits in my iPhone, is a tokenised PAN, i.e. the ePAN.

Given that the first 10 digits of Amex card numbers remain static when replacement cards are issued, I was guessing that I could perhaps concatenate the first 10 digits of my card number and the last 5 visible digits of my Device Account Number in order to generate the ePAN. However, if I enter these 15 digits into my TfL account, it immediately tells me that it is not a valid card number, even before I submit it, no doubt based on check digits. Therefore it is going to be a real pain for every TfL customer using Apple Pay to have to contact their card issuer for their ePAN, who will in turn have to contact Apple.

shortcrust

People have mentioned that Nationwide say there's no limit on Apple Pay. Anyone got a link to that?

NFH

shortcrust wrote: »

People have mentioned that Nationwide say there's no limit on Apple Pay. Anyone got a link to that?

It is correct that there's no limit on Apple Pay. The fingerprint gives a similar, if not greater, level of security as a PIN. However, point of sale terminals are currently restricted to £20, which will be increased to £30 in September. This is a restriction in the terminals, most of which are currently unable to apply different transaction limits for Apple Pay vs contactless payment cards. Over time, we can expect newer terminals to apply the £30 limit only for contactless payment cards.

The reason that Apple Pay doesn't need a transaction limit is because it uses 3-factor authentication:

1. Something you have (the iPhone)
2. Something you know (the token and cryptogram for your payment card stored in the iPhone)
3. Something you are (your fingerprint)

Existing contactless payments use only 1-factor (hence the £30 limit) and Chip & PIN uses 2-factor.

shortcrust

Thanks NFH, that's useful info.

colsten

Limit to be £20 at launch, going to £30 in Sept. That's pants.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33063748

Although same article says

"Not all retailers will have the limit at launch - and there will be others who will choose to get rid of it all together in time," said a Visa spokeswoman.

That sounds a lot better

NFH

colsten wrote: »

Limit to be £20 at launch, going to £30 in Sept. That's pants.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33063748

No, Apple Pay will not have a limit at launch. What the article says is that most terminals have an existing £20 limit. This is a limitation of the terminals, not of Apple Pay. Operators of terminals will be free to remove limits for Apple Pay transactions once they can distinguish between 3-factor Apple Pay transactions and 1-factor contactless transactions.

knack92

stclair wrote: »

Lloyds say Autum is July part of Autumn?

http://www.lloydsbankinggroup.com/Media/Press-Releases/2015/lloyds-banking-group/lloyds-banking-group-will-offer-apple-pay-to-lloyds-bank-halifax-and-bank-of-scotland-customers-from-autumn-2015/

NFH wrote: »

OK, fine. Lloyds will be late to the party, but RBS will be in July as it said above in the first post.

When I first posted I just took the names off Apple's slide announcing it hence all the banks being lumped together.

The Apple website separates the banks participating from launch and those coming later eg. Lloyds.

colsten

NFH wrote: »

No, Apple Pay will not have a limit at launch. What the article says is that most terminals have an existing £20 limit.

Same difference - if I can only spend £20 per transaction, it's not half as useful as it could be.

NFH

colsten wrote: »

Same difference - if I can only spend £20 per transaction, it's not half as useful as it could be.

No, it's not the same. The £20 or £30 limit will disappear over time for 3-factor Apple Pay, but will remain in place for 1-factor contactless card payments.