is my husband hiding money?

LannieDuck

In your position I would start looking for a full time job. Give your OH fair warning that this means he'll need to take on half of the childcare during the week and at weekends (including half of the drop-offs/pick-ups from school) and half of all housework.

...or perhaps he might prefer to sit down and have a sensible discussion about family finances?


Yes, it can be a valid choice for each person in a marriage to keep the majority of what they earn... but only if they both have an opportunity to go out and earn money in the first place.

LannieDuck

Guest101 wrote: »

I've been giving this a lot of thought. So let's role reverse for a second.

A woman comes on here, says I work full time. I earn 18k a year. My husband recently started working part time. Around 14 hours, but as he has looked after the kids also gets CB and WTC/CTC. I pay for everything except the rent. My husband pays that, and has some spends left over. I budget the rest for a family of 6, with no input from him. We have debts and loans, cars, sky, etc. don't go without.

My husband works evenings, so after work I look after the kids.

Today I got an email asking me if I'd had a wage increase ( I did get a small increase, about 2%). I think he now wants me to contribute to more of the rent.

- this forum would slate that man to high heaven. Yet that's the exact situation with genders reversed.

Absolutely beggars belief.

Actually, no. I'd ask how much the husband had left over each month after paying the rent, and how that compared to what the woman had.

Guest101

LannieDuck wrote: »

Actually, no. I'd ask how much the husband had left over each month after paying the rent, and how that compared to what the woman had.

Good.

Because most posters here would ofcourse tell the woman she's lazy and expecting a butler with benefits.

BigAunty

mumof4littleguys wrote: »

He said he has 'roughly' £250 a month for himself but thats ok as he works full time and I only work part time.
For the record he does nothing around the home. ...even at the weekend he does no household chores ever.

So feels he deserves to enjoy all of the household disposable income and not lift a finger round the house?

He says this is because you only work part time but if you did double your hours, do envisage him doing a half share of the cooking, cleaning and shopping or do you think he'd manufacture another excuse? Does he think that you work for 16 hours and that the housework and childcare you do is again just a part time commitment, leaving you with just as much personal down time as him?

This forum sees many posts like yours - women who end up with an extra child to look after rather than an adult who contributes fairly to the household. Their key characteristics are that their partners retain and control most or all of the household income and never lift a finger around the house.

Each thread is subtly different but that's the main theme. Some are very grim reading - the lady is controlled to a higher degree - they are constantly criticised, their partners ensure they are isolated from family and friends, they are subject to continual tracking and monitoring.

Good luck with trying to change an attitude that he feels he has the right to a different standard of living to you, that he deserves this, it is his right and you must adapt to his way of thinking and behaving.

There's a feminist concept called 'male privilege' and while it's a complex term I don't fully understand, its about how men can enjoy social and economic advantages . "Male privilege may be viewed as an invisible package filled with unearned privileges that are constantly at work, but which are unspoken and most people remain oblivious to. "In his case, it doesn't even occur to him that there is anything wrong with him having 90% greater personal spending power or not helping around the house.

His attitudes disadvantage you but he doesn't see the problem, its just you being uppity and happily, that chat with you last night, is something he feels ought to put you back in your place (subordinate to him).

BigAunty

It looks like you are a lone parent who happens to live with the father of the children. You raising your children in a fairly isolated way anyway, your partner seeing his role only to pay for household services and not bathe or feed them for example. You are extremely financially dependent on him and you've just found out this means you are vulnerable to his old-fashioned views around what he deserves and what you deserve (a lot less).

I have checked the Turn2us online benefit calculator and the Direct Gov child maintenance calculator to flag up your potential income if you decide to go it alone in your own property where you get to look after 4 children instead of 5 and get financial independence from him.

You may also find your dignity gets restored, one where you are no longer in an environment where you are told you deserve a low standard of living because you are not the main breadwinner.

According to my general research, you could receive around £510 per week with either most of your housing costs met through HB and council tax discount.

Breakdown:-
£90 employment income
£76 working tax credits
£224 child tax credits
£61 child benefit
£57 child support (based on £300 per week income of partner)

You could even give up your job and go to College or University and see a similar or slightly lower standard of income as full time students with dependents can get HB and be eligible for student grants and loans.

Guest101

BigAunty wrote: »

So feels he deserves to enjoy all of the household disposable income and not lift a finger round the house?

He says this is because you only work part time but if you did double your hours, do envisage him doing a half share of the cooking, cleaning and shopping or do you think he'd manufacture another excuse? Does he think that you work for 16 hours and that the housework and childcare you do is again just a part time commitment, leaving you with just as much personal down time as him?

This forum sees many posts like yours - women who end up with an extra child to look after rather than an adult who contributes fairly to the household. Their key characteristics are that their partners retain and control most or all of the household income and never lift a finger around the house.

Each thread is subtly different but that's the main theme. Some are very grim reading - the lady is controlled to a higher degree - they are constantly criticised, their partners ensure they are isolated from family and friends, they are subject to continual tracking and monitoring.

Good luck with trying to change an attitude that he feels he has the right to a different standard of living to you, that he deserves this, it is his right and you must adapt to his way of thinking and behaving.

There's a feminist concept called 'male privilege' and while it's a complex term I don't fully understand, its about how men can enjoy social and economic advantages . "Male privilege may be viewed as an invisible package filled with unearned privileges that are constantly at work, but which are unspoken and most people remain oblivious to. "In his case, it doesn't even occur to him that there is anything wrong with him having 90% greater personal spending power or not helping around the house.

His attitudes disadvantage you but he doesn't see the problem, its just you being uppity and happily, that chat with you last night, is something he feels ought to put you back in your place (subordinate to him).

An interesting concept. And perhaps correct in some cases.
And i dont think the husband should do nothing around the house, nor should he have a disproprotionate disposable income.

Just to put it into perspective, since you said "to him that there is anything wrong with him having 90% greater personal spending power". He doesnt. - They both have approximately equal proportion of their income (approx 15% - approx 19%) as disposable income. Now that doesnt necessarily make it right, since its still £60 - approx £250.

Equally he works from what I can work out 40 hours compared to 14 hours, or almost 3x the hours per week in a paid role. So if we go through what would be 'fair' which financially I dont disagree with you it currently is. Then he is 'owed', for want of a better word, 26 hours of household things. That would be fair?

We should also look at the actual financial commitment to the household, which seems to be approx £630 for rent and £1050 for the other outgoings. 1.66 of what the OP contributes. So there is obvious financial disparity there.

The question has moved on from is the Husband hiding money, to is his personal spending dispropotionate. Yes it is and clearly he should read this thread and realise it.

Equally is there a disproportion on household chores? - well this does slightly depend on the type of work he does - but there's no reason for him to not do his bit over the weekend.

Really it feels like your relationship hasnt adapted to the new dynamic of OP working. It's taking up her time, but she is expected to do the same she did before.

We all know parenting is more than a full time job, but for the sake of argument, the OP is now working 54 hours, for an extra £14, or £1 per hour. Which clearly is wrong.

(Equally BA could be absolutely correct and hes a mysoginisctic pig who wants to wallow all day and expects a dutiful 1930's wife. - but it's not as clear cut as that, yet. I accept that my position has changed as new information has emerged)

Guest101

BigAunty wrote: »

It looks like you are a lone parent who happens to live with the father of the children. You raising your children in a fairly isolated way anyway, your partner seeing his role only to pay for household services and not bathe or feed them for example. You are extremely financially dependent on him and you've just found out this means you are vulnerable to his old-fashioned views around what he deserves and what you deserve (a lot less).

I have checked the Turn2us online benefit calculator and the Direct Gov child maintenance calculator to flag up your potential income if you decide to go it alone in your own property where you get to look after 4 children instead of 5 and get financial independence from him.

You may also find your dignity gets restored, one where you are no longer in an environment where you are told you deserve a low standard of living because you are not the main breadwinner.

According to my general research, you could receive around £510 per week with either most of your housing costs met through HB and council tax discount.

Breakdown:-
£90 employment income
£76 working tax credits
£224 child tax credits
£61 child benefit
£57 child support (based on £300 per week income of partner)

You could even give up your job and go to College or University and see a similar or slightly lower standard of income as full time students with dependents can get HB and be eligible for student grants and loans.

I dont necessarily agree with the use of the benefits system as a means to take children away from one of their parents. It's not what the system was envisaged for.

However I will say that I dont believe your calculations are correct, there is the benefits cap to consider for a start.

If it is correct it would mean that the Household would get more from the state, then it currently recieves from 2 incomes and some state subsidy. Which whilst good for the OP is questionable from a taxpayer point of view.

(Turn2us is great for giving an idea of what could be entitled to, however it's accuracy is questionable as to the entitlement to all those things. e.g. it told me I was entitled to housing benefit when I wasnt.)

BigAunty

Guest101 wrote: »

I dont necessarily agree with the use of the benefits system as a means to take children away from one of their parents. It's not what the system was envisaged for.

However I will say that I dont believe your calculations are correct, there is the benefits cap to consider for a start.

If it is correct it would mean that the Household would get more from the state, then it currently recieves from 2 incomes and some state subsidy. Which whilst good for the OP is questionable from a taxpayer point of view.

I acknowledge your reservations about the OP moving from dependence on her partner to dependence on the state purse.

The system was envisaged to protect children from poverty. Quite possibly the fact that the UK has one of the highest rates of lone parenthood in europe may be related to the fact it has one of the highest rates of benefits paid to them might be a factor. Or perhaps its a chicken and egg thing because the benefits merely reflect the fact that there are so many households of this type.

The benefit cap doesn't apply to working households. Lone parents are only required to work 16 hours to be classed as a working household. The OP would be exempt from the benefit cap as it now stands due to her part time job. If she has any children under 5, she wouldn't be required to work and therefore wouldn't be subject to the cap, AFAIK.

The Turn2us online benefit calculator is reknowned for its accuracy but it requires the claimant to put in accurate data. The OP would not qualify for HB if her capital was over 16k. Since she is unable to save any money this may be unlikely.

It is a fact that with our low pay/high cost economy that many households receive subsidies from the state purse far higher than they are ever capable of earning and sometimes similar or greater than working households who receive no benefits whatsoever.

So yes, its quite likely that the OP could earn a mere £100 a week which pays nothing in the way of tax, then receive around £360 a week in tax credits and child benefit, then perhaps another £100-£150 a week in Housing benefit and council tax discount, meaning that she may be able to more than quadruple her income through the welfare system. Overall the OP may have somewhere along the lines of £5k in employment income, £18.7k in tax credits/child benefit and £5.2 to £7.8k in housing related benefits, then 3k in child maintenance, an overall gross income of £32k to £35k.

mumof4littleguys

I cant begin to tell you how much I appreciate all your help.
We argued until late at night. He said the tax reduction was my fault for going back to work in the first place. I pointed out I needed to go to work as at the current time I was only living on £10 a week.
He said when I was receiving my wage last year I didnt give him any si he isnt going to give me any of his.
I told him if last year at any point he had been living on such low money then of course I would have given him money, but at the time we both had roughly the same amount of free money.
I mentioned about splitting up and he said he wont be leaving our home and I cant make him. Which is true.
I will have to accept things as they are for now and plan for the future when my children are older.
I am weak and suffer badly with depression and just cant fight especially when I know I cant win.

Guest101

BigAunty wrote: »

I acknowledge your reservations about the OP moving from dependence on her partner to dependence on the state purse.

The system was envisaged to protect children from poverty. Quite possibly the fact that the UK has one of the highest rates of lone parenthood in europe may be related to the fact it has one of the highest rates of benefits paid to them might be a factor. Or perhaps its a chicken and egg thing because the benefits merely reflect the fact that there are so many households of this type.

The benefit cap doesn't apply to working households. Lone parents are only required to work 16 hours to be classed as a working household. The OP would be exempt from the benefit cap as it now stands due to her part time job. If she has any children under 5, she wouldn't be required to work and therefore wouldn't be subject to the cap, AFAIK.

The Turn2us online benefit calculator is reknowned for its accuracy but it requires the claimant to put in accurate data. The OP would not qualify for HB if her capital was over 16k. Since she is unable to save any money this may be unlikely.

It is a fact that with our low pay/high cost economy that many households receive subsidies from the state purse far higher than they are ever capable of earning and sometimes similar or greater than working households who receive no benefits whatsoever.

So yes, its quite likely that the OP could earn a mere £100 a week which pays nothing in the way of tax, then receive around £360 a week in tax credits and child benefit, then perhaps another £100-£150 a week in Housing benefit and council tax discount, meaning that she may be able to more than quadruple her income through the welfare system. Overall the OP may have somewhere along the lines of £5k in employment income, £18.7k in tax credits/child benefit and £5.2 to £7.8k in housing related benefits, then 3k in child maintenance, an overall gross income of £32k to £35k.

Excellent reply if you dont mind me saying.

The bit in bold is what worries me. It's common knowledge that marriage takes work and commitment. It's difficult. The UK and it's people are going through a difficult period. Money is rated in some surveys as the number 1 reason couples argue (and always features in the top 5).

It's this kind of hand holding nanny state that makes me question, why I bother to work for a living. someone working less then half my hours will earn almost double what I do. (This is a personal statement, but it does reflect the position, though not necessarily the belifs, of millions of people in this country).

A family being financially dependant on a main income earner, and another main care provider, is not a bad thing. Traditionally these roles have been gender specific and society hasnt changed alot since then.

It feels like the 'use' the, usually male, income earner makes is easily replaced by the state.

Life isnt supposed to be easy and i agree that there may be an element of chicken and egg, but there is less to fight for in relationships than there used to be. And society isn't better off for it either.

I dont have the solution, but certainly i think this is a major problem and a contributer to the breakdown of the 2.3 family (and the rise of the 1 or 4 parent family)