Economy 7 Meter scandal?

Kenyakimbo

Hi Everyone,
This problem could effect thousands of Electricity Consumers.
In May 2014 I discovered that Npower had been reading my meter wrongly,(getting daytime and nightime readings the wrong way round),since they installed a new meter in January 2013.I called them and was told they would re-calculate my bills and it was going to cost me more money,(for their mistake!).I was also asked if I had Electric Storage heaters for heating and an Immersion Heater for hot water? I told the Npower Customer Service lady that my house was built new in 1986 and had a full Gas-Fired Heating and Hot Water system.
She asked me why did I have an Economy 7 meter,(2 readings), fitted when it was costing me more money than a single-read meter? I said the meter was installed in the property from new-so presumably the wrong meter was installed in my house from day one.I was informed that I would save aprox. £230 a year by having a single read meter installed,(daytime electricity is a lot more expensive on Economy 7).
At the end of July the re-issued bills came and I paid the extra,but at the same time I had been thinking that the wrong meter had been installed in my house for all these years-so what was the total sum that Npower had charged me,because they had the wrong meter in my property,(possibly in the region of £1800-£2,500??).
All of my near neighbours have had these wrong meters fitted,so presumably the rest of the houses,(aprox 700),on this relatively new estate also have these expensive meters fitted.
The question has to be asked why were these expensive,(to the Customer),but very profitable,(to the power company),meters wrongly installed in modern houses with Gas-Fired heating and hot water systems.
Npowers recommendations for Economy 7 meters is:-"That you have Storage Heaters to heat your home and you use an Immersion Heater to provide your hot water"//-"Any Electricity you use in the day will cost you more than if you are on a Single Tariff"//-"If you don't have Storage Heaters then Economy 7 probably won't be the most cost effective tariff for you".
So the question has to be asked-If not specifically for charging the consumer more money for the same amount of Electricity consumed-why are these expensive,prehistoric Meters installed in modern Gas-Fired properties??
I believed that even though it was Npower's mistake in reading my meter wrongly-It was right that I pay them what I owed them,But now they have been overcharging me for years for my Electricity they don't want to know!

macman

The supplier has no idea how the customer heats and hot waters the property, and cares less. The metering will presumably have been originally specified by the developer. Why they specified E7 is anyone's guess. The customer chooses the tariff, not the supplier. Some suppliers will allow you to have a single rate tariff on a dual rate meter, others require a meter change, which costs around £60. A few people manage to make E7 pay even with gas CH and DHW, though for most a single rate meter is better.
You haven't been 'overcharged for all these years', you've failed for years to check what was the most appropriate tariff for your property, and Npower won't compensate you for that.
The meter transposition is a completely separate matter.
There's nothing 'prehistoric' about E7 metering, it's by far the best tariff for a property without access to mains gas, and with NSH's and an immersion heater-which is why millions of homes use it.

Bluebirdman_of_Alcathays

What meter did you have prior to the meter change?

Cardew

Welcome to the forum.


I had my house built in 1988 - 2 years after yours - also with gas CH and I specified an Economy 7 tariff.


Over the years since then, E7 has been advantageous over a single rate tariff or disadvantageous. This depends on the tariffs available at time and pattern of usage.


At the moment I have an E7 tariff, but at other times I have used a company BG, Eon, Ovo etc who will happily put you on a normal 24/7 tariff(using the same meter). They achieve this by adding the two totals together. e.g. 3000kWh on the peak rate meter(register) and 1000kWh on the off-peak meter is treated as 4000kWh on a normal tariff.


I don't know where the lady got the figure of E7 costing an extra £230 a year. I have run some figures through a comparison website.


The average consumption in UK is 13,500kWh gas and 3,200kWh electricity. In my area if you only use 10% of your electricity on 0ff-peak(and it is difficult to use less) an E7 tariff is £8pa more expensive Using more than 10% as I do, E7 is cheaper.


Some people, especially with older gas boilers, switch the boiler off for the summer and heat water overnight with the immersion heater.


On a more practical level, many people will have had many electricity suppliers since 1986 - why should one company be blamed?

Kenyakimbo

Bluebirdman_of_Alcathays wrote: »

What meter did you have prior to the meter change?

Hi Bluebirdman,
Before Npower changed the meter in January 2013,the meter was the old mechanical type,(but still Economy 7),-it had been installed for 25 years and was replaced by a Digital Economy 7 meter.

[Deleted User]

Hi,

as already stated it would be the builder/developer who decided what type of supply/meter was to be installed.

Perhaps, if you have the time, you could visit the 700 other houses, explain your concerns, and advise them that they may be on the wrong tariff and gather the information needed to campaign for compensation.

Cardew

I would add to my post above, that there have been times(reported on MSE) when peak rate on an Economy 7 tariff was actually cheaper than the 24/7 rate with the same company on the same fixed tariff,


Far from compensation required many of us(again posted on MSE) have gained from an Economy 7 tariff even with full gas CH.

Kenyakimbo

macman wrote: »

The supplier has no idea how the customer heats and hot waters the property, and cares less. The metering will presumably have been originally specified by the developer. Why they specified E7 is anyone's guess. The customer chooses the tariff, not the supplier. Some suppliers will allow you to have a single rate tariff on a dual rate meter, others require a meter change, which costs around £60. A few people manage to make E7 pay even with gas CH and DHW, though for most a single rate meter is better.
You haven't been 'overcharged for all these years', you've failed for years to check what was the most appropriate tariff for your property, and Npower won't compensate you for that.
The meter transposition is a completely separate matter.
There's nothing 'prehistoric' about E7 metering, it's by far the best tariff for a property without access to mains gas, and with NSH's and an immersion heater-which is why millions of homes use it.

Sorry macman,
but I can't take this as a genuine reply,(Over 35,000 posts!!),do you reply on behalf of the Power Companies?
I was a Heating Engineer,(Gas), in the late 1960's and a large part of our operations was taking out these prehistoric and expensive E7 Storage Radiator systems and replacing them with Gas-Fired Heating systems.
Yes of course there are still places with no access to Mains Gas ,but these are mainly flats and country villages which would obviously benefit from an E7 meter,whilst the majority of the country is covered by the Natural Gas Mains Network and will pay substantially more if an Economy 7 meter is fitted in their property,(a number of Npowers Customer Service staff have stated this to be a fact),and it seems that the consumer must use 30%+ of his/her electricity at night to make E7 cheaper than a single tariff.As a matter of fact the Electric Meter is situated NEXT to the Gas Meter outside my property.
"The metering will presumably have been originally specified by the developer",(presumption),-"Why they specified E7 is anyones guess",(fact)-Why have you turned a presumption into a fact? then- "The customer chooses the tariff-not the supplier"-So the Power company installs the wrong meter,(Npower have told me its not the correct meter-because I do not have Storage Radiators!),then according to your biased reasoning its everyones fault but the Power Company's.
I moved into my house in 1996,(it was built in 1987),in those days before the scandalous annual fuel price rises,no one gave much thought to changing suppliers every year.I moved in paid my bills and spent most of my time trying to run my business.
So the question still remains-on a new modern housing estate,why install Economy 7 meters,(and I have no doubt that the Power Company is responsible for the metering and not the builder), Answer=Profit.
I only have to take the comment-"The meter transposition"-An industry term,-not a laymans term!Also your 35,000 posts and therefore I do not accept your answer as genuine and believe you are answering on behalf of the Power Companies

[Deleted User]

There are towns in the UK , usually close to power stations where the DNO s deliberately installed eco 7 meters as standard to houses with gas central heating. I think the OP is correct in saying this is a scandal. These meters are far more expensive than single rate meters and not needed at all in houses with gas central heating. I, ve worked in quite a few towns, such as Retford, Worksop Sutton in Ashfield etc where these meters are routinely employed throughout the town in fairly new properties none of which need them because they started off from day one with gas central heating. I was told that it was to keep the local Power Stations busy through the night, as electicity cannot be stored and they can t really shut down production too much. Its got nothing to do with any of the suppliers.
In my view it is a scandal because householders end up paying though the nose for day rate electric when its only purpose is to give the power stations something to supply through the lowest consumption times. That would be fine if all these householders got the other 17 hours at the same price that I m paying (8.78p/kwhr ) but instead they re paying 16/17p a kwhr subsidising the power stations. I m not quite sure how all these towns ended up with thousands of stupid eco7 meters but the Local council must have been involved somehow in league with the DNO s, Worksop and Retford are awash with them..its a scandal...you ve got a good point there KenyaKimbo..where theres a blame theirs a claim..maybe the local council owe you the difference between standard single rate day rate and scandalous eco 7 rate. All electric properties are fine for Eco 7...but only them. My very last call today were a family totally bemused why they d got an Eco 7 meter..they thought everyone had one..hes phoning supplier now to get it ripped out

Bluebirdman_of_Alcathays

My memory doesn't go back this far, but I would have thought considering that privatisation was only legislated in 1989, that the OP's point is essentially moot? The state rarely does things well.

As an aside OP, most of the regulars on here have a connection to the energy industry in some way (what with it being an energy forum and all); that said I've no idea of macman's background.

I too would question why in almost 30 years you haven't questioned whether your meter set up is appropriate - it's hardly a trade secret that E7 is usually only cost effective for people with storage heaters

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/economy-7

Finally, npower (for all their many faults) have probably only been "responsible" for about a third of the bills during the time an E7 meter has been on the property.

sheffield_lad

Kenyakimbo wrote: »

in the late 1960's and a large part of our operations was taking out these prehistoric and expensive E7 Storage Radiator systems and replacing them with Gas-Fired Heating systems.
Yes of course there are still places with no access to Mains Gas ,but these are mainly flats and country villages which would obviously benefit from an E7 meter,whilst the majority of the country is covered by the Natural Gas Mains Network and will pay substantially more if an Economy 7 meter is fitted

You would be surprised then just how much E7 and off peak meters there are around major town & cities. Take for example Leeds & Hull the majority of there council housing stock stii has some form of off peak heating (under floor, warm air, NSH) and NSH are not prehistoric they are still fitted to properties even today often where the properties are aimed at the retired.