Economy 7 Meter scandal?

Kenyakimbo

Cardew wrote: »

Welcome to the forum.


I had my house built in 1988 - 2 years after yours - also with gas CH and I specified an Economy 7 tariff.


Over the years since then, E7 has been advantageous over a single rate tariff or disadvantageous. This depends on the tariffs available at time and pattern of usage.


At the moment I have an E7 tariff, but at other times I have used a company BG, Eon, Ovo etc who will happily put you on a normal 24/7 tariff(using the same meter). They achieve this by adding the two totals together. e.g. 3000kWh on the peak rate meter(register) and 1000kWh on the off-peak meter is treated as 4000kWh on a normal tariff.


I don't know where the lady got the figure of E7 costing an extra £230 a year. I have run some figures through a comparison website.


The average consumption in UK is 13,500kWh gas and 3,200kWh electricity. In my area if you only use 10% of your electricity on 0ff-peak(and it is difficult to use less) an E7 tariff is £8pa more expensive Using more than 10% as I do, E7 is cheaper.


Some people, especially with older gas boilers, switch the boiler off for the summer and heat water overnight with the immersion heater.


On a more practical level, many people will have had many electricity suppliers since 1986 - why should one company be blamed?

Thankyou for your reply Cardew
I will take your last point first,my house was built in 1987 and I have lived here since 1996 and Npower have been my Electricity supplier and not "many suppliers".
I have been informed on a number of occasions by Npower Customer Service staff,that I would pay over £200 a year less if I was on a Single Read meter,(various NPower staff calculated this amount using my present annual electricity usage and I would presume they can calculate reasonably accurately?).It would appear that one has to use over 30% of ones Electricity at the off peak rate to make Economy 7 even slightly viable-rather difficult when one is in bed asleep!
So I am sorry,but I was a Gas Heating Engineer and I do not accept the fact that with Gas Central Heating+Hot Water one is better off with an Economy 7 meter-even Npower disagrees with you there-unless of course you are an insomniac sitting up all night with the heating on then sleeping all day!
When someone has a grievance and posts on a site such as this,one always has to be aware of representatives of the Power Companies trying to cloud the issues and decry a genuine concern.

Nada666

It is perfectly possible for an E7 tariff to work with gas heating and gas hot water. It is up to the householder to decide if they want to maintain it. It is a lot cheaper to change tariff than to rewire the entire house so nothing wrong with builders installing E7.

CashStrapped

Kenyakimbo wrote: »

I do not accept your answer as genuine and believe you are answering on behalf of the Power Companies

Where is your evidence for this accusation? Is it just because you do not like his answer?

Just because someone has an alternative view/argument does not mean thay are wrong and/or working for a power company.

As Cardew pointed out, he even specified an E7 tariff and meter in a house with GCH from new! So some people actually want these in their houses.

Futhermore Cardew highlights the fact that an e7 tariff can sometimes be much cheaper than a standard single rate tariff.

First Utilitys best E7 tariff is actually better than my single rate tariff at the moment! So if I had an E7 set up I would prefer to be on this than my standard single rate and I have GCH. Based on my usage patter it would be cheaper by £100 per year!

As Macman points out, it is down to the individual to realise that the current set up is not appropriate for their needs and change their meter/tariff to one that is.

I once lived in a flat which had been converted to GCH but it was left on an e7 tariff with two meters. So I rang the company (npower actually) and the come round and replaced it with a single rate one immediately.


So it is not as simple as you make out. It is certainly not a scandal.

It is completely dependant on your own circumstances and it is down to you to work out what tariff is best for you.

For someone who worked in the industry (albeit gas rather than electric industry), why did it take you 30 years (if you lived in the property from new) to work out that it was not appropriate!

Kenyakimbo

sacsquacco wrote: »

There are towns in the UK , usually close to power stations where the DNO s deliberately installed eco 7 meters as standard to houses with gas central heating. I think the OP is correct in saying this is a scandal. These meters are far more expensive than single rate meters and not needed at all in houses with gas central heating. I, ve worked in quite a few towns, such as Retford, Worksop Sutton in Ashfield etc where these meters are routinely employed throughout the town in fairly new properties none of which need them because they started off from day one with gas central heating. I was told that it was to keep the local Power Stations busy through the night, as electicity cannot be stored and they can t really shut down production too much. Its got nothing to do with any of the suppliers.
In my view it is a scandal because householders end up paying though the nose for day rate electric when its only purpose is to give the power stations something to supply through the lowest consumption times. That would be fine if all these householders got the other 17 hours at the same price that I m paying (8.78p/kwhr ) but instead they re paying 16/17p a kwhr subsidising the power stations. I m not quite sure how all these towns ended up with thousands of stupid eco7 meters but the Local council must have been involved somehow in league with the DNO s, Worksop and Retford are awash with them..its a scandal...you ve got a good point there KenyaKimbo..where theres a blame theirs a claim..maybe the local council owe you the difference between standard single rate day rate and scandalous eco 7 rate. All electric properties are fine for Eco 7...but only them. My very last call today were a family totally bemused why they d got an Eco 7 meter..they thought everyone had one..hes phoning supplier now to get it ripped out

Hi Sacsquaccio,
Thanks for the post-I was beginning to think that only Power Company representatives were replying with their "smoke and Mirrors"posts!
When I was researching this Scandal,(lets call it what it is!),there were consumers on an energy forum,(can't remember which one-it was 8 months ago),were complaining that they had Electrical Storage Heaters-but Single-read meters?
Whatever!!-I think Money Saving Expert,Watchdog,(and maybe even the Power Companies themselves),should be made to inform consumers that they are most likely to be paying too much for their Electricity if they have Gas-Fired Heating and an Economy 7 Meter.

CashStrapped

So how do you explain that for my use, an E7 tariff would be better than the best single rate tariff available to me?

[Deleted User]

I agree that the OP had the knowledge to realise he d been sold a pup , but out there in the UK there s a population who don t know what a kwhr is,understand an energy bill, understand that "standard "tariff really means "expensive " or why their lecky meter has all these numbers on it .Like Sheffieldlad also has noticed , parts of Sheffield ,the Southern areas especially are awash with eco 7 for no good reason. Close to my town theres Finningly, next to the airport which is inundated with no good or no use expensive eco 7 meters. Maybe 30 years ago the economics were different, but today I noticed an eco 7 prepay in Goole ( with gas central heating of course ) on 18.2 p /kwhr with BG , when I pay .. 8.7 p kwhr ( or I will when the switch to Sainsburys BG go s through. Theres big money at stake here and people need to know. The suppliers wont tell them

[Deleted User]

Kenyakimbo wrote: »

Hi Sacsquaccio,
Thanks for the post-I was beginning to think that only Power Company representatives were replying with their "smoke and Mirrors"posts!
When I was researching this Scandal,(lets call it what it is!),there were consumers on an energy forum,(can't remember which one-it was 8 months ago),were complaining that they had Electrical Storage Heaters-but Single-read meters?
Whatever!!-I think Money Saving Expert,Watchdog,(and maybe even the Power Companies themselves),should be made to inform consumers that they are most likely to be paying too much for their Electricity if they have Gas-Fired Heating and an Economy 7 Meter.

We re wasting our time with the suppliers I know but BBC Watchdog or maybe even Which magazine should get onto this "scandal " and it is one. Which magazine did a story last year regarding timer switches on eco7 meters which were set way off what the occupiers thought they were set to. This is a lot lot worse than that . In my opinion everyone of these meters should be ripped out for free and the occupiers compensated. As I said Worksop is thick with them, a fairly sizable town. I did a week in the south of Peterborough a few years back which was also quite populated with them..all had them installed from new, along with their gas central heating. It takes meter readers and gas/electric engineers and workers to spot this anomoly

CashStrapped

Oh I agree that a large percentage of the population are not informed as to the best tariff/set-up available to them. This is also the case for people who are on standard tariffs because they do not realise how easy it is to switch.

This lack of education on money matters is true across many sectors: Credit cards, Insurance, Banking and so on

However...

For the OP to then start accusing people of being “in league with energy companies” (sounds like he is a part of the foil hat brigade) or that E7 is not appropriate to anyone just because it is not appropriate for him is rude and insulting.

I have a feeling that he is upset by his own incompetence for not realising he could have changed the meters when he first moved in.

[Deleted User]

CashStrapped wrote: »

Oh I agree that a large percentage of the population are not informed as to the best tariff/set-up available to them. This is also the case for people who are on standard tariffs because they do not realise how easy it is to switch.

This lack of education on money matters is true across many sectors: Credit cards, Insurance, Banking and so on

However...

For the OP to then start accusing people of being “in league with energy companies” (sounds like he is a part of the foil hat brigade) or that E7 is not appropriate to anyone just because it is not appropriate for him is rude and insulting.

I have a feeling that he is upset by his own incompetence for not realising he could have changed the meters when he first moved in.

I agree Eco 7 can work well with gas central heating if people understand it and are prepared to adjust usage, but from experience with the general public the vast majority have no idea whatsoever why they have this odd meter in the house. Some even say they thought everyone had the same. This is a scandal and needs highlighting and public scrutiny. Prices are too high now and competion is actually working well with prices being driven down but people stuck on eco 7 are virtually "out of the game " in some respects with far less competition between the highest and lowest eco7.. I ll be running an email myself to BBC Watchdog, I hope others find the time to do the same, especially people from worksop. Retford etc.. Once they actually ran a story from me (yes, it was about eco 7 meters ) but its time for another

Kenyakimbo

sheffield_lad wrote: »

You would be surprised then just how much E7 and off peak meters there are around major town & cities. Take for example Leeds & Hull the majority of there council housing stock stii has some form of off peak heating (under floor, warm air, NSH) and NSH are not prehistoric they are still fitted to properties even today often where the properties are aimed at the retired.

Sheffield lad,thanks for the reply.
Yes sorry for the use of the word prehistoric.When we were taking these inefficient,expensive NS Heaters out almost 50 years ago and replacing them with more efficient and cheaper to run Gas Central Heating.The majority of our customers seemed to view them as just that-Prehistoric-and I am surprised that they are still being fitted today.