Biggest culprits - inconsiderate drivers?

BeenThroughItAll

utopia_11 wrote: »

I've noticed there is a sense of mutual respect amongst the higher end bigger engine BMW drivers. A BMW driver in a 335i /M3/545i wouldn't even bother looking at a 320d pulling up next to them at the traffic light. Conversely, you'll almost always find the BMW driver in the 'lesser poor mans' BMW peering over to the otherwise indifferent higher model BMW driver as if to try and gain the acceptance from them.

Based on your extensive collected experience of not owning a BMW, I assume?


Change the !!!!ing record lad.

Gloomendoom

Cornucopia wrote: »

So, what is the maximum speed for which I should (allegedly) give way to a speeder? 100mph? 125mph? What about 160mph?

Surely it's a matter of common sense, not whether or not an approaching vehicle is speeding or by how much. If pulling out is likely to cause a vehicle to have to brake heavily or take avoiding action, then maybe it would be prudent to wait until it has gone past before changing lanes.

It would be rather foolish to risk contributing to the cause of an accident at motorway speeds just to prove a point.

Cornucopia

Gloomendoom wrote: »

Surely it's a matter of common sense, not whether or not an approaching vehicle is speeding or by how much. If pulling out is likely to cause a vehicle to have to brake heavily or take avoiding action, then maybe it would be prudent to wait until it has gone past before changing lanes.

I'm wondering how many more times I shall have to explain that I am not talking about pulling out at the last minute?

Is this the fifth or sixth time so far, in this part of the thread and I'm sure that posters were similarly misunderstanding last time it was discussed, earlier in this thread. Perhaps the greed for speed is so powerful that people's empathic faculties have been weakened over the years?

Once again, I am talking about a very familiar scenario to me: overtaking one or more lorries on a 2-lane motorway - I check behind me and the nearest vehicle is a more than safe distance away (maybe a quarter of a mile), but before I have the chance to complete the manoeuvre, the other driver has caught up with me and is often impatiently hanging off my rear bumper. That's despite me traveling at 70mph, and is especially common if there is more than one lorry.

Gloomendoom

Cornucopia wrote: »

I'm wondering how many more times I shall have to explain that I am not talking about pulling out at the last minute?

In that case, I can't really see what the problem is. As long as you move over to the left lane as soon as it is clear, you are not being inconsiderate.

I commuted along the M8 for while in the 90's and noticed that the locals had a peculiar habit of joining the motorway, then immediately moving to the outside lane and staying there. The practice seemed common throughout central Scotland on two lane motorways and dual carriageways. Most frustrating.

RS2000.

BeenThroughItAll wrote: »

Based on your extensive collected experience of not owning a BMW, I assume?


Change the !!!!ing record lad.

He clearly hasn't taken the advice on board.

almillar

More nonsense - the roads are there for everyone. I'm not about to be dictated to by another driver who is breaking the law.

If you pull out in front of someone doing 160MPH at your fixed 70 that you refuse to be moved from (I hope you have cruise control) you won't be dictated to, you'll be rear-ended hard. I'm talking about safety and you're talking about risking it to prove a point. Why would you use bad driving (poor lane discipline) to whilst criticising others' driving (speeding, maybe)?

You think I should anticipate that someone maybe half a mile behind me (assuming I can even see them) is doing, say, 120mph before I commence a lawful overtaking manoeuvre?

Yes. You are supposed to judge SPEED, and DISTANCE. You seem to think you only have to judge DISTANCE. Children are taught this when crossing the road. You've used an extreme example, of course, but you shouldn't be on the roads if you can't judge the speed and distance of other vehicles.

This isn't about 1 or 2mph. Not even about 5 or 10. It's about the difference between 65-70 and 90+

I agree - we're both using extreme examples and you've asked me for a cut off point - I don't want to provide one, as to do that would be to condone speeding. But to agree with you would be to condone changing lane on purpose causing someone else to react. That's awful driving, and a bad attitude.

I find that when someone resorts to putting words into someone else's mouth, then that's a good indication they are losing the argument.

I summarised my interpretation of what you said, and even directly quoted you. Which words did I put in your mouth?
You talked about overtaking people (clearly, they are slowER than you or you wouldn't be approaching them). You didn't talk about blocking - I did. You don't seem to realise that's what you're doing. And you don't seem to realise that you're not perfoming a 'legitimate' overtake if you've failed to judge the road conditions around you, or worse, purposely ignored them.

overtaking manoeuvre on a 2-lane motorway, where there is a line of lorries, and the nearest car behind me is maybe a quarter-half a mile away

OK, let's do the maths on this one then. Lorries are doing 60, you're doing 70. 10MPH differential. Your shorter distance of 0.25 miles back. If the other car is doing 80 (another 10mph differential) he'll take 1.5 minutes to catch you. It'll also take you 1.5 minutes to pass the lorries. Can you make it? That's the judgement call you're making. Half a mile, you've got 3 minutes.
TBH, I don't really think anyone looks that far back on the road, let alone judging the speed, but maybe this indicates to you that cars aren't quite as far back, or going quite as fast, as you think.

If they end up getting "blocked" temporarily by someone who is driving diligently within the law, then it is their own fault. They should (of course) have seen the hazard well in advance and adjusted their speed accordingly.

Don't you realise, this is YOU behind that person driving below the speed limit?!!!

Is this the fifth or sixth time so far, in this part of the thread and I'm sure that posters were similarly misunderstanding last time it was discussed, earlier in this thread

Clear examples, like you did just provide, would help. I reacted to the attitude in the absence of specifics.

In that case, I can't really see what the problem is. As long as you move over to the left lane as soon as it is clear, you are not being inconsiderate.

And of course, I agree with this. If the lane is 'clear' when you start your manoeuvre, fine. If you think people are pouncing on you from half a mile back at 120mph all the time (don't you people have speed cameras over there?!) then perhaps they're not as fast/far back as you think.

Cornucopia

Hmm.... I like the maths, not sure about your assumptions, though.

Let's be more realistic:

Me: 70mph passing lorries at 60mph, so 10mph differential.
Speeder: 90mph, from 0.25 of a mile behind me. 20mph differential.

Let's say I take 45 seconds to clear the lorry, over a distance of 220 yards. In that time, the speeder will have covered the 0.25 of a mile, and will be coming up behind me.


More generally, there does seem to be a pro-speeding theme on several recent Motoring threads. Maybe that reflects the way Insurers and other professionals regard things - which is wrong, if that's the way it is.

I'm not one of those people who is zealously anti-speeding, and I don't agree with automated enforcement. In fact, my issue is that I am quite capable of driving in excess of the speed limit, but I don't generally do it, because it's against the Law. I accept that others may not drive like that, which is fine except for the fact that some of them then bully other road users, which is totally unacceptable.

You said this:

You want to drive round at exactly 70 everywhere. Everyone 69 and below isn't driving 'sensibly, safely and legally' in your words. Everyone from 71 upwards, according to your potentially inaccurate speedo is a speeder and deserves to be blocked.

None of that reflects what I said. Even where you say "in my words", that is quoted out of context.

There are no speed cameras on the A2/M2/A2 trunk over a distance of around 35 miles between Bexley and Canterbury. It's also a road used by traffic between London & the Channel Ports, and has a reasonable share of speeders (maybe 20-40% of cars at times), some of whom are really shifting (100mph+) - no doubt to catch their ferries. There are Police patrols, and unmarked vehicles, but I think you'd have to be fairly unlucky to get caught by one.

almillar

Let's say I take 45 seconds to clear the lorry, over a distance of 220 yards. In that time, the speeder will have covered the 0.25 of a mile, and will be coming up behind me.

Is that a lot of lorries? I'd pull out if I were you in this specific example. He'll be approaching you DURING your overtaking manoeuvre from a long way back as you say. This is very different from pulling out 'in front' of people.

pro-speeding theme on several recent Motoring threads

I disagree. There will always be people that come along and say 'get off the road if you can't keep up' etc, but that's not a speed thing often, it's a lane hogging thing. It's a reaction to what's going on on our roads.
Most people would be happy enough at 70, but people don't like being blocked. If they're stuck at 65 behind someone, they'll want to 70. If we raised the limit to 80, they'd be equally annoyed at being stuck at 75, even though they're now going 10mph faster. Someone's in the way!

That's my interpretation of what your said, and the attitude of what I though it displayed. You displayed the attitude that you were driving at the correct speed (a LIMIT, remember) and other people were too slow, and others too fast, and that you had a right to never have to slow down if anyone else is daring to be driving faster than you in the outside lane. Read it back. Only when we've got into specific distances and speeds have we got a more realistic picture. I still can't believe it's a regular occurrence though.

Cornucopia

almillar wrote: »

Is that a lot of lorries? I'd pull out if I were you in this specific example. He'll be approaching you DURING your overtaking manoeuvre from a long way back as you say. This is very different from pulling out 'in front' of people.

Since I said I wasn't talking about "pulling out" on several occasions....

I disagree. There will always be people that come along and say 'get off the road if you can't keep up' etc, but that's not a speed thing often, it's a lane hogging thing. It's a reaction to what's going on on our roads.
Most people would be happy enough at 70, but people don't like being blocked. If they're stuck at 65 behind someone, they'll want to 70. If we raised the limit to 80, they'd be equally annoyed at being stuck at 75, even though they're now going 10mph faster. Someone's in the way!

Maybe - but that's an attitudinal problem.

FWIW, I do have Cruise Control, and have had it on all my cars over about the past 15 years. I am more than happy when I find my lane "blocked", to ratchet down the CC until I match their speed. If, of course, their speed varies a lot, I'll (a) not use CC, and (b) seek to overtake them to get away from their annoying driving.

That's my interpretation of what your said, and the attitude of what I though it displayed. You displayed the attitude that you were driving at the correct speed (a LIMIT, remember) and other people were too slow....

I never mentioned slower drivers... not once.

... and others too fast, and that you had a right to never have to slow down if anyone else is daring to be driving faster than you in the outside lane. Read it back. Only when we've got into specific distances and speeds have we got a more realistic picture. I still can't believe it's a regular occurrence though.

I will read it back.

I use the M2 several times a week, and the volume and type of traffic, combined with it being 2 lanes makes this very common. There are also a lot of lorries.

neilmcl

utopia_11 wrote: »

I've noticed there is a sense of mutual respect amongst the higher end bigger engine BMW drivers. A BMW driver in a 335i /M3/545i wouldn't even bother looking at a 320d pulling up next to them at the traffic light. Conversely, you'll almost always find the BMW driver in the 'lesser poor mans' BMW peering over to the otherwise indifferent higher model BMW driver as if to try and gain the acceptance from them.

I thought you were supposed to cut out this carp. FGS grow up man!