Borderline or Histrionic Personality Disorder

Laz123

what2donow wrote: »

On one hand: I want to help him and want to ask a question: how to get him to go to the therapy? Shall I make the appointment and while he is on the 'up' push him to go? Or does he have to mature to that decision otherwise it is all unefficent and waste of time and money?

Or should I just let it go and start looking after 2 kids I have while learning who I am and why this whole situation happened?

No one but yourself can really answer that. One way of getting someone to do something is to explain how it affects you personally and how it will affects the kids. My mother used to say things quietly to my personality disordered father time and time again in such a subtle way it eventually worked, almost in a subliminal way.

what2donow

How did you feel as a child of BPD person? I have read some nasty comments on a different forum that BPD should not have children. I dont know yet what to expect, what consequences it will actually have for my children.

fluffnutter

kezzygirl wrote: »

Actually, yes they are mental health problems.they are disorders of the mind/personality which make it difficult for the person concerned to manage their emotions/responses to situations. The mental health act was amended in 2007 in order to encompass personality disorder, so in short, yes,it is a mental illness.

Psychiatrists call all sorts of things 'mental illness', even an inability to tidy up is classed as a pathology. That's just the way they view the world. It wasn't so very long ago that homosexuality was classed as a psychiatric illness.

The point I'm making and I'll make it again, there is no 'cure'. People don't say 'I used to have a personality disorder, I took some pills and I'm all better now'. Banging on about how it's just an illness doesn't help anyone, in fact it can be dangerously counter-productive to believe that people have no control over their actions - that they're at the mercy of an 'illness' and need nothing more than sympathy and understanding and everything will be OK. That way lies martyrdom and is the reason why so many people are desperately unhappy in relationships with people with personality disorders. In fact, as Waves and Smiles bravely says criticism is difficult to take if you have BPD. How wonderful to be able to blame your illness and relinquish all responsibility for your actions! Personally I think categorising personality disorders as an illness is just a get out of jail free card and psychiatrists are mocked by other medical professionals for their readiness to suggest that virtually every extreme personality trait is a pathology. It's just a matter of opinion at the end of the day - we know so little about the brain.

That's not to say that people can't have insight into their personality and in particular their behaviour, nor indeed change, but I don't want the OP to think that a bit of therapy will 'cure' her other half and turn him into the person she hopes he can be. That's unlikely and I want her to know that she needs to have her eyes wide open and get help herself if she is to carry on enjoying this relationship with no emotional damage to her own psyche. Loving someone with a personality disorder is hard.

Gingernutty

what2donow wrote: »

My partner is most likely to have personality disorder (suggested by the psychologist after 1 visit he had). But he now refuses to go for the therapy any further or to even have it fully diagnosed. He basically rejects the idea he has a problem and blames it on me.

Straight away, the warning bells are ringing.

what2donow wrote: »

How can I get him to go and seek some help?

You can't.

what2donow wrote: »

I have read that crisis or failed relationship is a push for people to go through the therapy but I dont want to break down our relationship even though have been told it can be detrimental to me.

Trust me, it will be.

what2donow wrote: »

I want him to get better but I dont know how to convince him to get some help.

You won't convince him. He'll never seek help as long as you're around for him to blame.

what2donow wrote: »

If you ask why not just go away: I still love him and we have a child together.

All the more reason to leave.

As fluffnutter says, personality disorders are not mental illnesses as such and are effectively untreatable.

A personality disorder is a state of being, an ingrained set of behaviours and ways of thinking which have moulded the person into the person he/she is today.

There is no way, if he's trying to blame external factors, that he has insight into his condition, there is no hope of him seeking help or treatment without it and little hope that he will even if he does acknowledge the problem is his.

My mother was obsessive compulsive, paranoid as well as bipolar and had no insight into her condition. She refused to believe that she was mentally ill at all, refused all medication and was convinced she was physically ill when the depressive part of the bipolar descended.

She refused to help herself and lay in bed for days at a time waiting for the upswings which sent us all demented.

On the upswing, her paranoia turned into full blown psychosis, hallucinations and delusions.

We were trying to kill her. Broken radios were passing her messages, she tuned into static on the television and spent hours taking down the messages it passed on to her.

I routinely found my bedroom had been searched, stuff missing or broken with no explanation as to why and routines and rituals had to be followed.

Cleaning was done with a masochistic relish. Ammonia, Jeyes Fluid and bleach were routinely handled neat with no gloves, vacuuming of a huge house had to be done at least once a day and the floors were washed at least twice a day on her hands and knees.

Illness and condition together were a poisonous combo which meant she was untreated for almost her entire life and was sectioned three times.

I dreaded coming home. Even though I was physically looked after, showed no signs of neglect and wore clean clothes every day, I was utterly miserable and had no idea what or who I was coming home to.

She was able to to maintain a facade of normality which fooled most people and it was only when she broke down completely that we had any help at all.

Don't do this to your child.

FredG

Gingernutty wrote: »

Straight away, the warning bells are ringing.



You can't.



Trust me, it will be.



You won't convince him. He'll never seek help as long as you're around for him to blame.



All the more reason to leave.

As fluffnutter says, personality disorders are not mental illnesses as such and are effectively untreatable.

A personality disorder is a state of being, an ingrained set of behaviours and ways of thinking which have moulded the person into the person he/she is today.

There is no way, if he's trying to blame external factors, that he has insight into his condition, there is no hope of him seeking help or treatment without it and little hope that he will even if he does acknowledge the problem is his.

My mother was obsessive compulsive, paranoid as well as bipolar and had no insight into her condition. She refused to believe that she was mentally ill at all, refused all medication and was convinced she was physically ill when the depressive part of the bipolar descended.

She refused to help herself and lay in bed for days at a time waiting for the upswings which sent us all demented.

On the upswing, her paranoia turned into full blown psychosis, hallucinations and delusions.

We were trying to kill her. Broken radios were passing her messages, she tuned into static on the television and spent hours taking down the messages it passed on to her.

I routinely found my bedroom had been searched, stuff missing or broken with no explanation as to why and routines and rituals had to be followed.

Cleaning was done with a masochistic relish. Ammonia, Jeyes Fluid and bleach were routinely handled neat with no gloves, vacuuming of a huge house had to be done at least once a day and the floors were washed at least twice a day on her hands and knees.

Illness and condition together were a poisonous combo which meant she was untreated for almost her entire life and was sectioned three times.

I dreaded coming home. Even though I was physically looked after, showed no signs of neglect and wore clean clothes every day, I was utterly miserable and had no idea what or who I was coming home to.

She was able to to maintain a facade of normality which fooled most people and it was only when she broke down completely that we had any help at all.

Don't do this to your child.

A lot of this rings true for the situation I found myself in, even as an adult I stuck around the family home trying to assist.

Although my situation never quite reached those levels I was assaulted numerous times, spat on and mentally abused from the time I woke until I went to sleep all because of the blame projection that comes with this disorder. My Mother could not take that I was a happy, balanced and confident individual and did everything she could to belittle and drain me. I know that the demon on her back isn't her. She wasn't always like this, but knowing that doesn't make it hurt any less.

There are levels of severity, so there isn't a one answer fits all. My advice is to collate everything you've read here and analyse it.

BPD sufferers fear abandonment but will try to test their boundaries and force you to leave with such frequency and aggression you will eventually crack.

I have not spoken to my Mother for nearly four months after an altercation that finally hit my limit. Everyone has a limit but the guilt of just abandoning such an integral relationship to ones being hurts so much.

My close friends and girlfriend have all said that I am among the strongest, most patient and most loving individuals they've ever met and they have no idea how I put up with it for so long and didn't crack or become just as ill myself. It took me a long time to take those kind words on board, initially I thought to myself that I was a coward who'd took 16 years of abuse and bailed.

Now I look back and realise I did absolutely everything I could and put my own adult life on hold because I loved her more than she loved me. The only thing that hurts now is the wasted time.

skattykatty

We ALL have traits of disordered personality, it's just that some of us have a lot more concentrated in certain areas than others. (Though, under stress, many of us behave in a 'disordered' manner as we try to cope.) This means that we become stuck in certain patterns that are detrimental to our overall wellbeing and to those closest to us.

As others have said, only your partner can make the decision to seek help IF he acknowledges he needs/wants it. And only you can decide if you are willing to stick it out while he may or may not do so. You have joined him on his 'emotional swing', which is illustrative of BPD process. Hope-despair / Elation-Deflation / Joy-Fear. It must be exhausting and frightening. One way for you to cope is to make some time and space for yourself to consciously get off that swing and consider your needs and wants (as well as those of your children) in both the short and long term. You may wish to do that with a therapist or counsellor.

I have just read FredG above. Your partner will have a huge fear of abandonment and intimacy. He will do everything he can to make you stay but this 'everything' will probably force you to leave, in this way he manages to fulfil the story he tells himself that everyone else is so terrible to him. Try to step outside of his world and focus on you. What do you feel? Listen to yourself and try to trust yourself.

what2donow

THANK YOU! ALL OF YOU!!! YOU ARE ALL AMAZING PEOPLE! I particularly admire and thank those who came out very bravely with their background stories: WaS, FredG, Gingernutty, Laz123, McCloud1. Thanks Guys!

I have been on this forum for years now under a different nick and it helped me in all sorts of situations. But this by far the hardest I have ever come across.

I am taking some steps to get separated from him. We are married and have properties together, it will not be easy but I am ready to go. My psychologist said he will not leave so easily, he only threatens but he likes where he is. She told me to get small targets set. She told me to think of safe environment for me and the children.

I think this will be my diary. I need to get a grip! For 2 days I have been feeling lost, confused and crying, now the last 2 days I have been doing research of clinics, therapists, looking for successful stories. Let’s get real! Will get it updated fairly regularly and will value any advice, opinion and help from you.

Thank you xxx

skattykatty

You sound grounded and focused.
Baby steps is the key and be good to yourself.

Will keep an eye out for you on here.
Wish you so so well with it all.

kezzygirl

fluffnutter wrote: »

Psychiatrists call all sorts of things 'mental illness', even an inability to tidy up is classed as a pathology. That's just the way they view the world. It wasn't so very long ago that homosexuality was classed as a psychiatric illness.

The point I'm making and I'll make it again, there is no 'cure'. People don't say 'I used to have a personality disorder, I took some pills and I'm all better now'. Banging on about how it's just an illness doesn't help anyone, in fact it can be dangerously counter-productive to believe that people have no control over their actions - that they're at the mercy of an 'illness' and need nothing more than sympathy and understanding and everything will be OK. That way lies martyrdom and is the reason why so many people are desperately unhappy in relationships with people with personality disorders.
the same could be said for ANY mental illness though,right?treatment resistant psychosis? treatment resistant depression? i.e.where medication doesnt work? still an illness isn't it?

In fact, as Waves and Smiles bravely says criticism is difficult to take if you have BPD. How wonderful to be able to blame your illness and relinquish all responsibility for your actions! Personally I think categorising personality disorders as an illness is just a get out of jail free card and psychiatrists are mocked by other medical professionals for their readiness to suggest that virtually every extreme personality trait is a pathology. It's just a matter of opinion at the end of the day - we know so little about the brain.

and this sort of opinion is exactly why I am thankful that mh services have moved forward and progressed towards breaking down stigma and challenging ignorant assumptions.

That's not to say that people can't have insight into their personality and in particular their behaviour, nor indeed change, but I don't want the OP to think that a bit of therapy will 'cure' her other half and turn him into the person she hopes he can be. That's unlikely and I want her to know that she needs to have her eyes wide open and get help herself if she is to carry on enjoying this relationship with no emotional damage to her own psyche. Loving someone with a personality disorder is hard.

no, it wont cure him. medication won't cure schizophrenia, nor will insulin cure diabetes. but it will surely/hopefully help him if he wants it- to manage his emotions better.

Waves_and_Smiles

No, sadly there is no cure for BDP or a heap of mental illnesses, if there was I would have taken the lot. What I did learn to do through an awful lot of therapy was to control my BPD so it didn't hurt other people. I don't always manage it but mostly I do (I'm nowhere near perfect). I still think I am going to be left constantly, but I have stopped forcing people to leave me first to try to stop myself being hurt. I still want people to comfort me (which will never work because I want the comfort I missed as a child), but I have stopped creating crisis after crisis to try to make that happen. The negative thoughts are still there but I have learned to wait before I react to them and reason them out first, it makes things a little easier for me and a lot easier for those around me. For example if my partner is 15 minutes late home I no longer yell at him, hurt myself and accuse of him of all kinds of things. I still think of every possible scenario and panic but I keep it to myself, it is MY problem, not his. The immediate emotional response still flares up but I have learned to rationalise it to myself.

You could try booking an appointment for your OH but be aware me may still not go. I have pretended to faint in the street in my past to get out of something that I really didn't want to do. However, the fact he is considering it is encouraging. For me, if I really don't want to do something I will have a mini-meltdown on the spot, it is clearly obvious when I am not going to cooperate. I would recommend very gentle comments about it, don't push him and if he gets stressed back off but keep bringing it up in nice ways "I would be so proud of you if you went", "It is so sweet of you to consider going for all of us", etc. People with BDP think they are constantly going to be left and hated, couching things in a way that implies they will get lots of support and love if they do something can help a lot.

Also don;t forget about your own and your daughters needs in this. It is a long road to have successful therapy for BDP. I had 9 years psychotherapy and 2 years psychoanalysis to get a handle on mine and I needed every session (not everyone will need that long but I have a host of other mental health problems, too). He has to want to be able to control it and face some things that aren't very nice about himself. It is going to hurt and some of the time he may take his pain out on you. You must look after you in this, your feelings are just as important as his are.