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Tesco have named the stores which will close.

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  • Pennywise
    Pennywise Posts: 13,468 Forumite
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    jack_pott wrote: »
    the community as a whole is better off if everyone cooperates by not using the supermarket, but each individual is better off by betraying the rest of the population and buying where it's cheapest.

    Yes, selfishness and NIMBYism is alive and thriving.
  • whatmichaelsays
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    jack_pott wrote: »
    This is perfectly true, but it's also disingenuous. The decision where to shop is an example of a Prisoner's Dilemma: the community as a whole is better off if everyone cooperates by not using the supermarket, but each individual is better off by betraying the rest of the population and buying where it's cheapest. Thus if everyone behaves rationally in their own best interest, the independent traders go bust.

    It has been shown that iterative games of Prisoner's Dilemma can lead to a resolution of the paradox by giving players an opportunity to punish past betrayal with retaliatory action, this is how and why t!t for tat behaviour evolved (no, it's not just childishness). At first it might seem that supermarket shopping is an example of iterative PD because people go shopping multiple times, but in practice the costs of being betrayed are deferred for too long and too diluted for their effect to be attributed to any particular individual.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Prisoners-Dilemma-Neumann-Theory-Puzzle/dp/038541580X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1422528933&sr=8-1&keywords=poundstone+prisoner

    That is true if everyone buys on the same principle (ie, if everyone buys the cheapest of what is on offer, or the most convenient).

    But not everyone does. People choose to shop where they do for a multitude of reasons, including price, parking, convenience, service, choice, quality of product, location, brand recognition, peer pressure, etc. The most successful brands are not always the cheapest (Apple's recent profit statement is proof of that).

    There is nothing to say that the arrival of a new competitor cannot improve standards for everyone. We have two local butchers that have managed to succeed by embracing late evening opening - something that very few small businesses have done despite our dramatically changing shopping habits.

    Of course, sites like this one encourage people to buy on price and price alone - they have modified consumer behaviour so that "getting something cheap, cheapest and cheaper still" is what large parts of the population value more than anything else.
    Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
  • I_luv_cats
    I_luv_cats Posts: 14,441 Forumite
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    My groceries come by Tesco home delivery.

    Only really cos got a Discounted Annual pass.

    I saved 25p by shopping (email comparison) with them last week LOL - every little helps!!
  • IronWolf
    IronWolf Posts: 6,423 Forumite
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    jack_pott wrote: »
    This is perfectly true, but it's also disingenuous. The decision where to shop is an example of a Prisoner's Dilemma: the community as a whole is better off if everyone cooperates by not using the supermarket, but each individual is better off by betraying the rest of the population and buying where it's cheapest. Thus if everyone behaves rationally in their own best interest, the independent traders go bust.

    It has been shown that iterative games of Prisoner's Dilemma can lead to a resolution of the paradox by giving players an opportunity to punish past betrayal with retaliatory action, this is how and why t!t for tat behaviour evolved (no, it's not just childishness). At first it might seem that supermarket shopping is an example of iterative PD because people go shopping multiple times, but in practice the costs of being betrayed are deferred for too long and too diluted for their effect to be attributed to any particular individual.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Prisoners-Dilemma-Neumann-Theory-Puzzle/dp/038541580X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1422528933&sr=8-1&keywords=poundstone+prisoner

    This is nothing like the Prisoners dilemma though. People are not better off by cooperating to avoid Tesco, there is no benefit to them if other people do or dont shop there. If everyone is better off individually shopping at Tesco then the community as a whole is better off shopping at Tesco.

    More so because the more customers a single shop has, the greater its buying power which reduces prices even further for customers.
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  • duchy
    duchy Posts: 19,511 Forumite
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    The one in Chatham is horribly grim and run down, next to an in-shops hovel, and attached to a smelly and threatening public car park. No idea about the others. Hope they don't hold onto the land and stop others doing something useful with it.

    I rarely go to the Chatham one.
    It's poorly placed and always deserted .
    I'd assume they'll transfer some of the staff to the Gillingham store.
    No skin off my nose - I gave up on Tesco in favour of Aldi a couple of years ago.

    I can't see anyone else wanting the land though it's in such an odd position
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  • red_devil
    red_devil Posts: 10,793 Forumite
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    You're absolutely entitled to your opinion, but people are equally entitled to call it out - particularly when your opinion seems to be based around straw-man arguments and hysteria.[/QUOTE]


    its also based on hearing from people who have worked for them.


    I couldn't care less about them and they wouldn't have cared about you if you were a small independent.
    :footie:
  • red_devil
    red_devil Posts: 10,793 Forumite
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    The Hands Off Hadleigh campaign makes for interesting reading.

    Tesco tried to open a store there but met with fierce opposition. They first applied for planning permission in 1987 and for 25 years they kept on appealing and trying to force their way into an area where they were just not wanted.

    However the opposition campaign finally won and in December 2013 Tesco finally admitted defeat and said they would not be appealing again.

    Tesco did not come out squeaky clean on that one, they tried to bully the local council and bulldoze their way where they were not welcome.

    Tesco are probably no worse than any of the other supermarkets. I think both the Big 4 supermarkets and many of the large retail chains have a lot to answer for. They have ruined the face of our high streets, all our towns and cities are now just clones of each other.

    Many of the small indies have gone to the wall, our high streets are just soulless deserts and many of our farmers are fighting to stay afloat.

    Thankfully I think the tide is beginning to turn and people are waking up and realising what has been lost.

    I now try to avoid supermarkets and large retail chains as much as possible, I prefer to give my money to local shops, businesses and tradespeople.

    It all depends on where you live of course and I appreciate that in some areas there are no real alternatives to supermarkets. However, I have been pleasantly surprised to find that not all independent retailers are more expensive than the supermarkets. Some are even cheaper and they often offer better products too.

    I now rarely do a big supermarket shop, I tend to shop little and often, using markets, farm shops, butchers, greengrocers etc - like our mothers and grandmothers did. We eat well and I'm even saving money on the food bill. Win-win.


    Thankfully I think the tide is beginning to turn and people are waking up and realising what has been lost.

    that's true people should never have deserted their small shops. They are vital and a lifeline to a community.
    :footie:
  • Hoipolloi
    Hoipolloi Posts: 663 Forumite
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    None closing in my area.
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  • [Deleted User]
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    IronWolf wrote: »
    People are not better off by cooperating to avoid Tesco, there is no benefit to them if other people do or dont shop there.

    Well why do you think that they campaign against new stores opening then?
    If everyone is better off individually shopping at Tesco then the community as a whole is better off shopping at Tesco.

    That's patently not the case. What people want is to have independents there for the odd occasion when they want to window shop, or for customer service, but then go and buy cheaply the rest of the time. That's where the PD arises, they can only have it both ways if enough other shoppers forego the cost savings and use the independents all the time. If everyone uses the supermarket, then everyone loses the customer service at the independent.

    I used to have my cake and eat it by browsing the books in my local independent bookshop, and the buying them at Amazon, but the problem for me was that everyone else was doing the same, so the shop closed. Now nobody has a place to browse books. Alternatively, I could have bought the books locally, in which case I'm the mug who pays more while others browse at my expense, and then the shop closes anyway because everyone else still buys from Amazon.
  • geordie_joe
    geordie_joe Posts: 9,112 Forumite
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    antrobus wrote: »
    In what way would a community be "better off" by shopping at a range of independent traders rather than a supermarket?

    You obviously haven't lived in a community, and I mean an actual community not just a number of people who live in the same place and don't know each other or ever see/speak to each other.
    antrobus wrote: »
    Surely, if the supermarket is cheaper, the community is better off to the tune of the aggregate savings on its shopping bills?

    There's more to life than money.
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