Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

Random? I don't believe that for one minute. The data is also based on £25000 per year which is very close to the average pay in Scotland so not so relevant to the poorest paid in society. The table is obviously political propaganda.

I don't feel the need to defend Labour, I'm not an acolyte of any party, but I note that they will be in a "told-you so" position when things bit due to SNP's inaction. Presumably it will reaction because you've just told us that there is no action possible. Anything the SNP do now to help the poorest will put the lie to that won't it.

So Sturgeon has already admitted that she will continue to do nothing. That does not surprise me.

Yes it was one of numerous random examples on Twitter where there was a dispute over the 5% nature of the tax rise.

Sturgeon is very sensibly waiting until there is some method of varying the tax bands. Rather than implementing some sort of vague, airy fairy, barely legal rebate system which will be down to local councils to implement and deliver at some vague point in the future. While this tax rise would've come immediately in April.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Oft no. The SNP got enough stick during the referendum by declaring what they 'would' do. The press would be on it like vultures and before we know it, Project Fear 2. The whole campaign was spent on the defensive. Which as you'll see shortly, will be the position of the Leave EU campaign. But at least they have most of the press onside.

The SNP haven't released their manifesto yet. Yet are already getting hammered in the Scottish press, ( to little avail it has to be said having seen today's poll ), for not just meekly nodding and passing uncosted suggestions from Scottish Labour whenever they put them forward.

This tax rise was Labour proposal. Not an SNP one. And it doesn't really matter now. Even the Greens, no stranger to wishing progressive and sweeping tax rises, weren't buying it.

actually the SNP said virtually nothing about their post Independence policies : (apart from making scotland a fairer more equal place of course)
but at least you admit that telling the scots the truth isn't SNP policy, as you know it would be unpopular

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Yes it was one of numerous random examples on Twitter where there was a dispute over the 5% nature of the tax rise.

Sturgeon is very sensibly waiting until there is some method of varying the tax bands. Rather than implementing some sort of vague, airy fairy, barely legal rebate system which will be down to local councils to implement and deliver at some vague point in the future. While this tax rise would've come immediately in April.

On the random thing, although I have been known to criticise you on the rare occasion (!) I did not actually mean that you had made up the table. Yes I can believe you picked randomly from what was available even though you might have chosen it for the message imparted. But the data in the table was anything but chosen randomly and it does not address the very poor who, by definition really, have little or no income above £1100 which would be faced by old or new rate.

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

actually the SNP said virtually nothing about their post Independence policies : (apart from making scotland a fairer more equal place of course)

The White Paper was hundreds of pages long. And the opposite side had nearly a year to rip absolutely everything in it to shreds and to skew and slant 1000's of headlines on it. There's a reason today why there's a running 'SNP accused' joke regarding the media. Mistakes made, lessons learned.

but at least you admit that telling the scots the truth isn't SNP policy, as you know it would be unpopular

No, just very little in the way of media balance.

Anyway some encouraging news for you tonight surely ?

Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 53 mins53 minutes ago Dramatic YouGov EU poll in Times: Leave 45% (-3%), Remain 36% (+2%), Don't Know 19% (+1%). Excluding don't knows: 56% Leave, 44% Remain.

Only there was this one yesterday too.

A TNS survey found that despite a series of UK-wide polls indicating a tight race over Britian's EU membership, just 21 per cent of Scots are planning to vote to leave compared to 44 per cent in favour of staying in. Although the gap has narrowed slightly and almost a third remain undecided, it indicated that Scotland is on course to vote strongly in favour of remaining in the EU

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14254079.Poll__SNP_retain_huge_lead_as_Scots_set_to_record_landslide_in_favour_of_EU_membership/

Interesting times.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

On the random thing, although I have been known to criticise you on the rare occasion (!) I did not actually mean that you had made up the table. Yes I can believe you picked randomly from what was available even though you might have chosen it for the message imparted. But the data in the table was anything but chosen randomly and it does not address the very poor who, by definition really, have little or no income above £1100 which would be faced by old or new rate.

Is a busted flush string. And I don't mind you criticising me in debate. I like you. But the graph was honestly random. There were loads of them on Twitter yesterday as a full scale disagreement was played out over the whole thing.

Has also come to light that while one prominent Labour page on announcing the policy has stated that everyone on low income would get the rebate. Other's are stating it's 'per household'. As I've already said, I'm not against higher taxes in principle affecting Scotland alone in order to pay for x,y and z when the powers are there to implement them in a fair and easily implementable way. And to be honest from what I've seen from hundreds of other comments on this elsewhere, there are very few that are. In principle.

But not when they haven't been thought through like this proposal was/is.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

The White Paper was hundreds of pages long. And the opposite side had nearly a year to rip absolutely everything in it to shreds and to skew and slant 1000's of headlines on it. There's a reason today why there's a running 'SNP accused' joke regarding the media. Mistakes made, lessons learned.
No, just very little in the way of media balance.

Anyway some encouraging news for you tonight surely ?
Only there was this one yesterday too.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14254079.Poll__SNP_retain_huge_lead_as_Scots_set_to_record_landslide_in_favour_of_EU_membership/

Interesting times.

just in a few sentence then
what was the SNP tax policy post independence?

Mistermeaner

How many of those supporting higher taxes in scotland will be affected by them.

People are always generally in favour of taxes and spending provided they are not themselves paying. Trouble is to spend as the snp want to everyone will have to muck in. Substantially

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

just in a few sentence then
what was the SNP tax policy post independence?

What's Osborne's, post Brexit ?

Tax plans were in the White Paper. But 2013 criteria, no longer apply in 2016. Economically or politically.

Shakethedisease

Mistermeaner wrote: »

How many of those supporting higher taxes in scotland will be affected by them.

People are always generally in favour of taxes and spending provided they are not themselves paying. Trouble is to spend as the snp want to everyone will have to muck in. Substantially

You keep confusing Scotland within the union and very limited partial powers regarding income tax with full independence. We're discussing the former. Chucking in 'but independence' every time limited partial income tax powers within the union are mentioned, does not compute.

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

What's Osborne's, post Brexit ?

Different issue. The UK as we are fully aware has a black hole to be breached. Leaving the EU is just something that will be dealt with as any issue that arises.