Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Generali

Shakethedisease wrote: »

It needs all taxes and powers to meet spending ambitions. Not teeny weeny partial income tax ones.

Scottish Labour seem to think otherwise.

I'm not surprised that the SNP is livid. If Labour succeed in making the point that Scotland can have different tax and spending policies to England then it blows a rather nasty hole in the independence rhetoric.

.string.

The SNP stealth policy Tax

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Good luck to them selling this to the Scots. Those on 10k+ a year hit with a 5% increase in income tax, and pay more tax than anywhere else in the UK, just to offset Tory austerity cuts ? To stay in the union ?

And the Independent Tax will be:

Drum Roll, everyone holds their breath

Choose from the following options:

o It's too early to give any figures
o. I don't understand the question
o. Owls are on the decline in Sky due to Tory cuts
o. In Natland there will be no tax
o. The EU will pay us subsdies
o You don't live here so you can't ask me any questions
o. I won't say what it will be but any cost is worth getting rid of the English
o. Have you seen the latest Poll


Actually I advice everyone not to keep holding their breath.

Edit: I should explain the meaning of "stealth tax": Labour's proposed tax shows the cost of resetting the endangered public expenditures brought about by the priorities chosen by the SNP for use of the Block Grant Those priorities have consequences.

Shakethedisease

Mistermeaner wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance but if the mechanisms don't exist through existing system why not just pass a law to collect through some other way eg. A means tested portion of council tax etc. A special levy etc. Additional business rates.

It sounds more to me like a system limitation than a powers one which would need to be overcome by an I scotland anyway.

Perhaps I misunderstood but the BBC levy a tax on each household; if they can surely so can holyrood , just means test it in some way.

This is what the people of Scotland (apparently) want so let's do it. The public will support this.

The people of Scotland, or at least those that favour independence or much more in the way of Devolution aren't against paying more in taxes for services per se.

1 )But this is an across the board rise.
2) The very fact they are touting a rebate means they know this.
3) The have no idea how the rebate will work in practice. Yet they want this 1p rise implemented in 5 or 6 weeks time ( New tax year ).
4) Scots really don't want tax rises in order to pay for Tory cuts and policies that hardly any of them voted for. But Labour did.
5) Tax rises within the Union, are an entirely different matter from independence.
6) If the Scotland Bill goes through, the Scottish govt will be able to vary tax bands anyway in 2017/18.
7) Labour voted for these cuts in Jan 2015. They're not doing well now trying to blame the SNP for them.

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

Scottish Labour seem to think otherwise.

I'm not surprised that the SNP is livid. If Labour succeed in making the point that Scotland can have different tax and spending policies to England then it blows a rather nasty hole in the independence rhetoric.

I think we're intelligent enough to see the difference between independence, and well, not being in terms of power and taxes.

You have to remember that half of these MSP's shouting loudest right now, are doing so because they will be out of a job in May. This is a bold move right enough. But it's one of desperation. The MSM in Scotland will be fawning all over it as per. Once again however, social media has overtaken them far quicker than they can print it or get it on air. Where the policy has already been scrutinised and taken to bits at a very basic level.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

The SNP stealth policy Tax

And the Independent Tax will be:

Drum Roll, everyone holds their breath

Choose from the following options:

o It's too early to give any figures
o. I don't understand the question
o. Owls are on the decline in Sky due to Tory cuts
o. In Natland there will be no tax
o. The EU will pay us subsdies
o You don't live here so you can't ask me any questions
o. I won't say what it will be but any cost is worth getting rid of the English
o. Have you seen the latest Poll


Actually I advice everyone not to keep holding their breath.

Edit: I should explain the meaning of "stealth tax": Labour's proposed tax shows the cost of resetting the endangered public expenditures brought about by the priorities chosen by the SNP for use of the Block Grant Those priorities have consequences.

SNP priorities are fine. With positive satisfaction levels in just about every area. You must keep missing the part where Scottish Labour manufacture a 'crisis' or two just before every election ? Jim Murphy had loads of them.

We haven't seen the SNP manifesto as yet.

.string.

The "Independence Tax" I was referring to was, of course, the tax regime which would exist in Natland. As you well know.

But you really do like excuses for doing nothing.

Incidentally, the Tax free allowance quoted in your table is that for 2017-2018. Don't know why but presumably for political reasons.

By then, to the benefit of the poor, the Tax Free allowance will have gone up by £400, thanks to the wicked austerity tax policies of Westminster.
See
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/413970/TIIN_4168_income_tax_personal_allowances_and_basic_rate_limit.pdf

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

The "Independence Tax" I was referring to was, of course, the tax regime which would exist in Natland. As you well know.

But you really do like excuses for doing nothing.

Incidentally, the Tax free allowance quoted in your table is that for 2017-2018. Don't know why but presumably for political reasons.

It's a random 'example' to show % increases in a simple, easy to read way.

By then, to the benefit of the poor, the Tax Free allowance will have gone up by £400, thanks to the wicked austerity tax policies of Westminster.
See
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/413970/TIIN_4168_income_tax_personal_allowances_and_basic_rate_limit.pdf

Only Westminster has the power to set personal allowances. I'm sure the Scottish Government would love to have the same powers, but alas....

The 1p tax rise was voted against yesterday by SNP, Greens and Tories. Meanwhile on UK Labour's website there's a big splash on how Labour plan to cut taxes for 24 million people. But not in Scotland it seems, where they want to raise them.

So Labour would cut them UK wide, then raise them in Scotland. It's all very weird. They need to get a grip.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

It's a random 'example' to show % increases in a simple, easy to read way.



Only Westminster has the power to set personal allowances. I'm sure the Scottish Government would love to have the same powers.. but alas....

there is nothing (except certain election defeat) to stop the SNP declaring what their tax policies would have been had they been given those powers
so interesting to know how much the personal allowance would rise to
and of course how much the 40% band would fall to
and how much the 45% rate would rise by

but obviously they would commit election suicide by doing this.

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

It's a random 'example' to show % increases in a simple, easy to read way.

Only Westminster has the power to set personal allowances. I'm sure the Scottish Government would love to have the same powers, but alas....

The 1p tax rise was voted against yesterday by SNP, Greens and Tories. Meanwhile on UK Labour's website there's a big splash on how Labour plan to cut taxes for 24 million people. But not in Scotland it seems, where they want to raise them.

So Labour would cut them UK wide, then raise them in Scotland. It's all very weird. They need to get a grip.

Random? I don't believe that for one minute. The data is also based on £25000 per year which is very close to the average pay in Scotland so not so relevant to the poorest paid in society. The table is obviously political propaganda.

I don't feel the need to defend Labour, I'm not an acolyte of any party, but I note that they will be in a "told-you so" position when things bit due to SNP's inaction. Presumably it will reaction because you've just told us that there is no action possible. Anything the SNP do now to help the poorest will put the lie to that won't it.

So Sturgeon has already admitted that she will continue to do nothing. That does not surprise me.

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

there is nothing (except certain election defeat) to stop the SNP declaring what their tax policies would have been had they been given those powers
so interesting to know how much the personal allowance would rise to
and of course how much the 40% band would fall to
and how much the 45% rate would rise by

but obviously they would commit election suicide by doing this.

Oft no. The SNP got enough stick during the referendum by declaring what they 'would' do. The press would be on it like vultures and before we know it, Project Fear 2. The whole campaign was spent on the defensive. Which as you'll see shortly, will be the position of the Leave EU campaign. But at least they have most of the press onside.

The SNP haven't released their manifesto yet. Yet are already getting hammered in the Scottish press, ( to little avail it has to be said having seen today's poll ), for not just meekly nodding and passing uncosted suggestions from Scottish Labour whenever they put them forward.

This tax rise was Labour proposal. Not an SNP one. And it doesn't really matter now. Even the Greens, no stranger to wishing progressive and sweeping tax rises, weren't buying it.