Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Shakethedisease

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

To have an SNP MP quote an absolutely worthless self selecting internet poll as fact or as being representative of the views of Scotland in the HoC is little short of a national disgrace and completely disrespects the British and International victims of ISIS, not to mention the Scottish people.

The SNP contingent have become an embarrassment to Scotland.

And they have betrayed the people of Scotland by choosing party political games and the appeasement of ISIS over national security and standing by our allies.

No, they've just had far better arguments against. Not everyone want's another Libya or Iraq. Anyway, Cameron has a majority remember ? Not the SNP's fault he can't make sure of all of his MP's voting with him. The SNP only have 54/56. MP's and don't make any difference. At least that's what you're always telling us.

And in all honesty. I think you need to go and take a few deep breaths and calm down. The SNP were never in a million years going to vote for this.

Mistermeaner

As I thought shakey , not an ounce of substance. It really is indi at any cost. Great for those who have mostly completed their working lives, got house and saving and pensions and not long to work.... I feel sorry for the youth of Scotland.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

No, they've just had far better arguments against. Not everyone want's another Libya or Iraq. Anyway, Cameron has a majority remember ? Not the SNP's fault he can't make sure of all of his MP's voting with him. The SNP only have 54/56. MP's and don't make any difference. At least that's what you're always telling us.

And in all honesty. I think you need to go and take a few deep breaths and calm down. The SNP were never in a million years going to vote for this.

You are right

the SNP fodder will always obey the mistress : without any principles and integrity of their own, that is no problem for them

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Shakethedisease wrote: »

The Yougov poll is a subset sample and has UKIP in Scotland on 8%. Very unlikely. The 72% poll is far more likely to be representative....

That is complete and utter nonsense and anyone with two brain cells to spark together knows it.

The last few polls in Scotland, actual proper representative polls - not some self-selecting internet drivel, have showed a consistent lead for bombing ISIS in Syria.

I spent the day today out and about speaking to people, and the anger at the SNP in the majority of the (admittedly Unionist) people I spoke to in my circles was palpable...

The words 'Treasonous", "Appeasers", "Cowards" and yes even that old SNP favourite "Quislings" were used more than once.

I might not go that far... I just think they're shallow, venal, self serving, political game-players.

But I absolutely believe they have betrayed Scotland and the Scottish people with their game playing today.

And most especially, they have betrayed their constituents, there's not a snowballs chance in hell that most of those SNP MP's represented the views of their constituents in todays debate. The polling data proves that.

If the SNP's goal is to further widen the divide between Unionists and Nationalists in Scotland, and create real anger and resentment that hardens positions, they're certainly achieving that.

But as Northern Ireland learned the hard way, that's a bl00dy dangerous game to play.

Mistermeaner

Leanne: you don't need a degree but a bit of basic understanding of economics would help, forming your opinion on the basis of your ignorance is dangerous. Particularly if you think Scotland can be like Denmark and that high wages and cost are 'relative' so everything will be ok.

Shakey: please tell me you are not serious regards you thinking there is parallel s between UK leaving the eu and Scotland leaving the UK?

Shakethedisease

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

That is complete and utter nonsense and anyone with two brain cells to spark together knows it.

The last few polls in Scotland, actual proper representative polls - not some self-selecting internet drivel, have showed a consistent lead for bombing ISIS in Syria.

I spent the day today out and about speaking to people, and the anger at the SNP in the majority of the (admittedly Unionist) people I spoke to in my circles was palpable...

The words 'Treasonous", "Appeasers", "Cowards" and yes even that old SNP favourite "Quislings" were used more than once.

I might not go that far... I just think they're shallow, venal, self serving, political game-players.

But I absolutely believe they have betrayed Scotland and the Scottish people with their game playing today.

And most especially, they have betrayed their constituents, there's not a snowballs chance in hell that most of those SNP MP's represented the views of their constituents in todays debate. The polling data proves that.

If the SNP's goal is to further widen the divide between Unionists and Nationalists in Scotland, and create real anger and resentment that hardens positions, they're certainly achieving that.

But as Northern Ireland learned the hard way, that's a bl00dy dangerous game to play.

Well you'll have no bother in linking to these fully Scottish polls re airstrikes ? And it's a fluid situation anyway.. support for airstrikes has been falling throughout the week throughout the UK leading up to this vote. 11 points in a week according to the last two YouGov polls.

YouGov and the Times have some fresh Syria polling tonight, conducted on Monday evening and during the day on Tuesday. It shows a sharp drop in support for airstrikes since YouGov’s polling a week ago, but the overall balance of opinion is still in favour: 48% now support RAF airstrikes against ISIS in Syria, 31% are opposed. A week ago the figures were 59% to 20%.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9560

You believe what you want in terms of 'betrayal'. I believe the SNP has done the right thing. Imo, there are probably more in Scotland with the same view as myself, rather than your's.

Cameron's 70,000 ground troops 'waiting to help' are not there. In my opinion that's what's risible about this debate, never mind dodgy polls.

Generali

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I'm pretty disgusted with some of the other parties MP's. So we're even there. The SNP won in 56 out of 59 constituencies. ( You lost, get over it ).. Ian Murray is also voting against airstrikes. People knew what they were voting for re the SNP and their history in being against recent military interventions. They got more votes than the Tories did. So they represent more people's views.

The Yougov poll is a subset sample and has UKIP in Scotland on 8%. Very unlikely. The 72% poll is far more likely to be representative.. it is in my circles anyway. And anyway, the 72% poll is in all the Scottish newspapers, so it must be true.......

It's not a poll. A poll has a weighted sample and controls about things to do about non-respondents. This is a voodoo poll. If newspaper editors are stupid enough to think it has any validity at all then they deserve to be working in a dying industry quite frankly.

Shakethedisease

Mistermeaner wrote: »

Shakey: please tell me you are not serious regards you thinking there is parallel s between UK leaving the eu and Scotland leaving the UK?

Banks leaving, big businesses relocating, capital flight, millions of job losses, out of the EU, £ falling, stock markets crashing, recession, depression, no seat at the 'top table', pooling and sharing, NHS collapse ( need EU workers to keep it going ), Care industry collapse ( ditto ), mortgage rate rises, higher taxes...

Just wait a for a bit. All of those will be along in a short time from the 'Remain' side. I can promise you that. 100%.

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

It's not a poll. A poll has a weighted sample and controls about things to do about non-respondents. This is a voodoo poll. If newspaper editors are stupid enough to think it has any validity at all then they deserve to be working in a dying industry quite frankly.

My sentiments exactly re Scottish media. Only usually you're only to happy to take whatever they say as gospel. That's a change of tune for you.... oh wait... there was no 'SNP accussed' in the headline. Scrub that.

But anyway, the YouGov poll is no more valid as a subsample. UKIP at 8% in Scotland would be a surprise to everyone ! It's more likely the weighting was too high re Conservative/UKIP voters to apply to Scotland. So in that case, wouldn't be accurate, and would account for perhaps higher support for airstrikes in Scotland than one would expect.

Mistermeaner

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Banks leaving, big businesses relocating, capital flight, millions of job losses, out of the EU, £ falling, stock markets crashing, recession, depression, no seat at the 'top table', pooling and sharing, NHS collapse ( need EU workers to keep it going ), Care industry collapse ( ditto ), mortgage rate rises, higher taxes...

Just wait a for a bit. All of those will be along in a short time from the 'Remain' side. I can promise you that. 100%.

The UK has complete fiscal independence from the eu, ie currency, monetary policy etc. The eu to the UK is essentially a free trade, free movement and pile of law. There is very little tying the UK to the eu and certainly nothing that cannot be separately negotiated.

Scotland is not a country in any way shape or form (except semantically) it has no currency, no means of fiscal governance, no sovereignty - I know this is what you want eventually but it's nit clear to me how you want this to look and how you will get tgere

Totally separate issues