Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Thrugelmir

Mistermeaner wrote: »

Fine. Not sure why you bothered replying then but hopefully shake can explain. I've already concluded that leanne can't.

You won't get a proper answer. Until the Gods up high release the full details. As a consequence then the disciples will be left floundering and merely continue to blame everyone else for their woes.

GO isn't making the cuts single handedly. Having met some of the new breed of civil servants at no 1 Victoria Street. There's a real impetus to this drive. Cutting fat is proving far easier than anyone imagined.

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

You should at the very least be aware that you are being sold independence on the back of a lie. The Scottish Government, under current tax and spend commitments, is almost certainly isn't solvent unless you are happy to argue that 20% of taxes have simply gone missing somewhere.

If Scottish people want independence then ultimately they will get it. I doubt that they want years or (more likely) decades of cuts with no financial benefit. The Tories are cutting to shift the economy towards the private sector, Scotland would be cutting to stop going bust.

In your opinion. Current tax and spend commitments are UK commitments. Forecasting an iScotland tax and spend commitments 10 years down the line is..... unknown. And certainly can't be done by using current UK projections and just 'applying them' to Scotland for the next 20 or 30 years. Which is what is usually done.

Why would Scotland vote to go independent, then just follow policies they rejected ?

But at least you've stopped with the 'ship has sailed' nonsense.

Labour made the referendum a Labour v's the SNP thing. Labour MP's overheard in bars toasting the SNP's imminent demise the night after the vote. Many ordinary voters voted No due to the Labour party assuming Miliband would be PM. Once they start changing their minds... There are also new political parties in Scotland springing up. RISE on the left and today.. a new centre right, but independence supporting group. Not sure about who they are.. but.. fielding candidates nonetheless next May.

A FRESH voice from the centre right will be added to the Yes movement when a new pro-independence political party formally launches later this week.The Scottish Libertarian Party (SLP) is led by businessman Alan Finlay and is planning to field candidates in all eight regions at next year’s Holyrood elections.
As well as being pro-Scottish independence, the party has an agenda supporting further reform of the welfare state, low taxation and public spending and low regulation for businesses. It is also strongly in favour of an EU exit....
...

Politics expert Professor John Curtice, of Strathclyde University, said the formation of the SLP was an interesting political development and echoed some of the views put forward by Tory MSP Murdo Fraser when he campaigned to be Conservative leader in Scotland.
However, Curtice said he doubted whether its “small state, low public spending agenda” would gain significant support.
“It sounds like a full blooded right-of-centre party and it certainly has a valid point of view. There will be people who agree with its principles,” he said.

http://www.thenational.scot/politics/new-scottish-libertarian-party-set-to-launch-and-call-for-independence.10658


But overall, in Scotland, the political ground is now shifting towards independence leaning, or ( in Labour's/Lib Dem's case ).. a softening of approach since the referendum. Even 'fledgling' centre right parties aren't convinced anymore that Scotland is doomed by independence.

Shakethedisease

Mistermeaner wrote: »

Shakey; question:

I think it was you who chucked Denmark on the table when I challenged how iscotland would be better off without rouk - I think you then left poor old economically illiterate (put politically engaged) leanne to try and defend the position on how scotland would be like Denmark. The conclusion I think was that it couldn't and if it was noone would vote for it.

Could you please explain to me again how iscotland with its 5mil population would eventually look economically (in your view), how it would transition there (and in what time frame) . I'm dying to know what this 'better alone' country looks like.

I presume you'll give full consideration to its economic fundamentals; currency, eu, borrowing, taxation, public sector spending, private sector structure, pension, benefits, welfare, health etc. Also I guess particularly border control (physical and fiscal) as you wouldn't want people hopping the wall exploiting any arbitrage?

Why don't I wait and see what the 'Leave EU' campaign have to say first about leaving unions ?

An iScotland, is an unknown. I've learnt better than to post anything from pro-independence articles or even direct from the SNP on this board. Unless of course, you're willing to read them and take them seriously ?

From your posts about Leanne, I doubt it.

Shakethedisease

Tromking wrote: »

You keep on peddling the "Scots hate Tories, ergo independence follows" theory. I think it's more case of "Scots drip incessantly about Tories, but choose to keep the English money anyway" that's at work in Scotland.

Nah, you just seem to have somehow wiped the last 3 decades of Scottish politics from your mind for some reason. Scots don't vote Tory in large numbers. And haven't for quite some time.

Once you absorb that, then you'll understand that having UK Tory governments having the last word on reserved matters isn't viewed as a particularly positive thing in Scotland. By SNP or Labour leaning voters. Is this news for you ? The SNP don't want any 'subsidies' at all.. surely that can't be news to you either ?

Generali

Shakethedisease wrote: »

In your opinion. Current tax and spend commitments are UK commitments. Forecasting an iScotland tax and spend commitments 10 years down the line is..... unknown. And certainly can't be done by using current UK projections and just 'applying them' to Scotland for the next 20 or 30 years. Which is what is usually done.

Why would Scotland vote to go independent, then just follow policies they rejected ?

But at least you've stopped with the 'ship has sailed' nonsense.

Labour made the referendum a Labour v's the SNP thing. Labour MP's overheard in bars toasting the SNP's imminent demise the night after the vote. Many ordinary voters voted No due to the Labour party assuming Miliband would be PM. Once they start changing their minds... There are also new political parties in Scotland springing up. RISE on the left and today.. a new centre right, but independence supporting group. Not sure about who they are.. but.. fielding candidates nonetheless next May.

http://www.thenational.scot/politics/new-scottish-libertarian-party-set-to-launch-and-call-for-independence.10658


But overall, in Scotland, the political ground is now shifting towards independence leaning, or ( in Labour's/Lib Dem's case ).. a softening of approach since the referendum. Even 'fledgling' centre right parties aren't convinced anymore that Scotland is doomed by independence.

The ship has sailed of course.

Interesting link to the piece.

It'll take more than a decade to replace 20% of Scotland's Government spending. I'm on safe ground.

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

The ship has sailed of course.

Interesting link to the piece.

It'll take more than a decade to replace 20% of Scotland's Government spending. I'm on safe ground.

On Scotland voting for independence or DOOMSDAY if they do ?

I daresay there will a shockwaves for a few months, negotiations for ages.. then a transitionary phase. One thing that IS for certain, is that it wouldn't happen overnight.

Just like if there's a Leave vote for the EU ref. Which incidentally, is also an unknown. But it won't stop people voting for that either believing that the UK will be 'better off' without EU 'rule'. Those below poll results have the Leave vote nowhere near as far behind as Yes started in the Scottish one.

http://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/should-the-united-kingdom-remain-a-member-of-the-eu-or-leave-the-eu/

You won't be on 'safe ground' if it starts looking like it is a leave vote. Because a lot of what mistermeaner want's answered in detail for Scotland going it alone. Won't have been for the UK.

I presume you'll give full consideration to its economic fundamentals;..... borrowing, taxation, public sector spending, private sector structure, pension, benefits, welfare, health etc. Also I guess particularly border control (physical and fiscal) as you wouldn't want people hopping the wall exploiting any arbitrage?

We'll all be in the same boat then. I think I'm on pretty safe ground with that one too.;)

elantan

Mistermeaner wrote: »

Fine. Not sure why you bothered replying then but hopefully shake can explain. I've already concluded that leanne can't.

I bothered replying cause I wanted to ... amazing that isn't it

Mistermeaner

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Why don't I wait and see what the 'Leave EU' campaign have to say first about leaving unions ?

An iScotland, is an unknown. I've learnt better than to post anything from pro-independence articles or even direct from the SNP on this board. Unless of course, you're willing to read them and take them seriously ?

From your posts about Leanne, I doubt it.

Uk leaving the eu and Scotland leaving uk are not comparable. Surely I don't need to explain the differences?

I've asked some pretty simple questions to which I would have thought there are already answers, Leanne did not have answers, elantan says the answers are out there but won't provide them (although keeps posting vague nonsense ) and I can't them myself.

I don't want a link to any pro indi website, I would like to know what you think an independent scotland would look like and how it would transition there; you said Denmark previously but that was destroyed with facts so I would be really interested to know what your thoughts and plan is (and please no more poles; there is something I call the x factor factor which is that popularity and active voting are no measure of quality and substance)

I'm really interested to see someone with pro indi leanings explain how things will be better - all I see currently is whinging and anti Tory/English; the main arguments re better together are based on economics and I've yet to see these coherently countered.

kabayiri

Generali wrote: »

The ship has sailed of course.

Interesting link to the piece.

It'll take more than a decade to replace 20% of Scotland's Government spending. I'm on safe ground.

Not if Scotland cut a great deal on leaving the UK.

I think I have figured it out now.

Scotland will become such a pest in UK government affairs, that a future Cameron-style government will offer them £100bn to go.

If they are careful, that should provide 5 years help in balancing the books, maybe even 10 ?

.string.

kabayiri wrote: »

Not if Scotland cut a great deal on leaving the UK.

I think I have figured it out now.

Scotland will become such a pest in UK government affairs, that a future Cameron-style government will offer them £100bn to go.

If they are careful, that should provide 5 years help in balancing the books, maybe even 10 ?

I doubt any such money would be offered. But we know that dreams of such things are in the SNP's mindset. Take, for example, Shakey's recent mention of a Transition Period which reflects the SNP concept of sucking up the London subsidy in order to feather-bed themselves for the next separatist budget con they try on the Scots. Building up a nest egg, you could call it.

That is why, some time ago now, I suggested that in the event of any new neverendum being requested, it was granted on the pre-agreed cast iron ondition that leaving would take place with 18 months. That would be to restrict such looting to a certain time period rather than have it subject to SNP fancy.

On the matter of what economic plans there are for Natland, all I hear is hot air. I don't think that the SNP followers have any notion at all about what they would do, merely such a suppressed fear of how bad the economics would be that they dare not give details in case "they" found out, "they" being the Scottish people.