Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Mistermeaner

.string. wrote: »

On the matter of what economic plans there are for Natland, all I hear is hot air. I don't think that the SNP followers have any notion at all about what they would do, merely such a suppressed fear of how bad the economics would be that they dare not give details in case "they" found out, "they" being the Scottish people.

This is the conclusion I'm drawing but I'm waiting to be corrected

Elantan is good a making winky faces though

Generali

.string. wrote: »

I doubt any such money would be offered. But we know that dreams of such things are in the SNP's mindset. Take, for example, Shakey's recent mention of a Transition Period which reflects the SNP concept of sucking up the London subsidy in order to feather-bed themselves for the next separatist budget con they try on the Scots. Building up a nest egg, you could call it.

That is why, some time ago now, I suggested that in the event of any new neverendum being requested, it was granted on the pre-agreed cast iron ondition that leaving would take place with 18 months. That would be to restrict such looting to a certain time period rather than have it subject to SNP fancy.

On the matter of what economic plans there are for Natland, all I hear is hot air. I don't think that the SNP followers have any notion at all about what they would do, merely such a suppressed fear of how bad the economics would be that they dare not give details in case "they" found out, "they" being the Scottish people.

By any measure that I've ever seen used to measure the finances of Scotland, they only work if oil prices are at a record high.

kabayiri

.string. wrote: »

...
On the matter of what economic plans there are for Natland, all I hear is hot air. I don't think that the SNP followers have any notion at all about what they would do, merely such a suppressed fear of how bad the economics would be that they dare not give details in case "they" found out, "they" being the Scottish people.

That's a problem for the Scots and their politicians.

My selfish concern is about money being provided by Londoners to prop up Scotland which could go to rejuvenate other regions that actually want to be part of the Union.

Those billions of pounds of subsidy every year could revive much needed West-East transport links across England and Wales. We also need metro systems around each of our regional cities, to bring them up to 21st century spec.

Shakethedisease

Mistermeaner wrote: »

Uk leaving the eu and Scotland leaving uk are not comparable. Surely I don't need to explain the differences?

The arguments for and against are very similar. As will the campaigns be.

I've asked some pretty simple questions to which I would have thought there are already answers, Leanne did not have answers, elantan says the answers are out there but won't provide them (although keeps posting vague nonsense ) and I can't them myself.

There are answers out there. You want a 40 page essay on every single facet. We've been through them ALL numerous times on these threads and previous ones prior to the referendum. Currency, eu, oil prices, financial black holes etc etc.. just about everything. Simply look up my username, and read what I've put forward before if you want to know my views on anything.

I don't want a link to any pro indi website, I would like to know what you think an independent scotland would look like and how it would transition there; you said Denmark previously but that was destroyed with facts so I would be really interested to know what your thoughts and plan is (and please no more poles; there is something I call the x factor factor which is that popularity and active voting are no measure of quality and substance)

Then you misunderstood why I said 'ask Denmark'. You had asked how it was possible that a country with the population of only 5 million can possibly 'get by' without subsidies from the neighbouring country of 59 million. I replied, 'Ask Denmark'. I didn't reference Denmark as an economic powerhouse. I referenced it as a country with 5 million people, who don't need subsidised by a neighbouring country.

I'm really interested to see someone with pro indi leanings explain how things will be better - all I see currently is whinging and anti Tory/English; the main arguments re better together are based on economics and I've yet to see these coherently countered.

Well, let me know where you are getting all your info from ? Then I can see what you're seeing and then mabye we can debate properly about it. But I can't counter until I know what you're presenting and where you're getting it from. Whinging and anti Tory/English isn't a lot to go on. You're very good at asking others for info. Where's yours ?

In terms of 'how things will be better'. In my own opinion at a very basic level, I think that all political and economic decisions that affect Scotland, should be taken in Scotland. I see it as a natural state of play for any country. Politically I see Scotland and England as diverging at an accelerating rate in terms of what people want. And the economics, I don't see as unsurmountable. I don't think it will be anywhere near as rosy as the SNP paint, but nor do I think it will be anywhere near the doomsday scenario Generali, Hamish and other's here paint. I also think that it will be deep political divisions that will finally end the union. Not economic fears that will save it like last time. I've stated that view many times already in the last year.

The union between Scotland and England at base level is a political one. Labour was the buffer party that always did well in Scotland, and half the time in England so we all ticked along. But that buffer has gone now. And the politics are starting to unravel and have diverged massively. Soon ( imo) a political union will be no longer viable.The issues like currency, oil prices and everything else have been discussed here many many times before.

But this sort of thing...

Powerful speech by @AngusRobertson. Finishes pointing out 2 of 59 Scottish MPs will vote for airstrikes and 72% of Scots oppose. #SyriaVote

Michael Gray ‏@GrayInGlasgow 9 mins9 minutes ago .@AngusRobertson: '97% of Scottish MPs oppose war. 72% of Scottish public oppose bombing.' No Scottish mandate for British wars. #SyriaVote

...Cannot continue as it is for long. No matter what the oil price is ( sorry Generali, string and whoever else is stuck on oil prices ). We haven't even gotten to Trident renewal yet. I'm actually surprised none of you can see or accept where it's all heading ?

CLAPTON

I see that the Skye dinosaur footprints have finally been discovered.
These were made by some of the largest dinosaur that ever lived.
Now Scotland has its very own dinosaur.

These are bigger than anything that has ever been found in England.

Once again this shows how the Scottish and English are diverging.

Well done Nicola, well done the SNP, well done Shakey another example of a progressive, fairer, more equal Scotland

MFW_ASAP

kabayiri wrote: »

That's a problem for the Scots and their politicians.

My selfish concern is about money being provided by Londoners to prop up Scotland which could go to rejuvenate other regions that actually want to be part of the Union.

Those billions of pounds of subsidy every year could revive much needed West-East transport links across England and Wales. We also need metro systems around each of our regional cities, to bring them up to 21st century spec.

I was caught between wanting Scotland to break away from the UK because of the above - the money squandered on Scotland could go elsewhere (hopefully the NWest) and wanting the NATS to lose just because they seemed an odious bunch of people, especially their leader.

I no longer care about the NATS having their victory (it'll be as empty as Scots pockets once the NATS crash their economy), I want the English and Welsh to get their subsidy so that we can have a few other cities that come close to the financial might of London.

browniej

Shakethedisease wrote: »

But this sort of thing...

Michael Gray ‏@GrayInGlasgow 9 mins9 minutes ago .@AngusRobertson: '97% of Scottish MPs oppose war. 72% of Scottish public oppose bombing.' No Scottish mandate for British wars. #SyriaVote

This is the problem with headlines like that.

2300 Scots vote in a website poll - out of that poll 72% oppose the bombing. 2300 that could be bothered to vote in an online poll is somehow representative of the views of 5 million people?

On Sunday we had the Sunday Post with a poll stating that 66% of Scots felt safer in the UK than out. The same poll also stated that 43.5% felt that the UK should mount air strikes with 32.2% for No and 24.2% undecided. Can't find out how many were polled unfortunately as it doesn't say.

So which poll is more representative of Scots?

kabayiri

MFW_ASAP wrote: »

...
I no longer care about the NATS having their victory (it'll be as empty as Scots pockets once the NATS crash their economy), I want the English and Welsh to get their subsidy so that we can have a few other cities that come close to the financial might of London.

I see no point in forcing large groups of people to be part of the Union when they see no future in it.

We have much greater austerity to go through than the current program. It's going to be tough enough, but having millions of people actively believing they deserve more than the rest of us is only going to lead to division and resentment.

The referendum and associated promises solved nothing. It's clear there are a lot of people very bitter about the result.

MFW_ASAP

kabayiri wrote: »

I see no point in forcing large groups of people to be part of the Union when they see no future in it.

We have much greater austerity to go through than the current program. It's going to be tough enough, but having millions of people actively believing they deserve more than the rest of us is only going to lead to division and resentment.

The referendum and associated promises solved nothing. It's clear there are a lot of people very bitter about the result.

I'm hoping for a 'No' vote for staying in the EU, which will then trigger another Scottish referendum. Hopefully resulting in a 'Yes' vote to leave the UK. A double whammy of great decisions (IMHO)

browniej

kabayiri wrote: »

I see no point in forcing large groups of people to be part of the Union when they see no future in it.

A larger group of people want to be part of the Union and that is what matters.