Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

so by radical you mean 'borrow more'

(well why not as SNP will default on their share of the UK debts : just think how popular that will be amoungst the anyone but england and lovers of flower of scotland))

No, sigh. I mean Scottish Labour is trying to BE the SNP in order to win voters back. That's a pretty radical shift in policies from a few months ago. And when Kezia was saying that electing Corbyn would have Labour 'carping from the sidelines' for years.

This new opposition to Trident, let’s remember a sizeable proportion of Scots support its renewal, and the green light for any of their MSPs to campaign for independence is wholly directed to the 1.6 million Scots who voted Yes, the vast bulk of whom reside in former Labour heartlands....Scottish Labour are unable to comprehend just how former these heartlands are. No matter what they support, these voters are gone for good. With six months to go Scottish Labour are talking to voters who will not listen while ignoring those who are.

....The dilemma for Labour strategists is to devise an answer for why would a middle earning unionist want to vote for a party that seeks to put their taxes up and backpeddle on the union.

http://aidankerr.com/2015/11/01/scottish-labour-not-a-branch-office-but-out-of-office/

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

No, sigh. I mean Scottish Labour is trying to BE the SNP in order to win voters back. That's a pretty radical shift in policies from a few months ago. And when Kezia was saying that electing Corbyn would have Labour 'carping from the sidelines' for years.

http://aidankerr.com/2015/11/01/scottish-labour-not-a-branch-office-but-out-of-office/

but you do mean borrow more (rather than paying for a 'fairer' and more equal scotland by raising taxes)?

Mistermeaner

Shakethedisease wrote: »

it seems the SNP are being pressed to announce what they're going to do with tax raising powers that no-one knows will be yet:)

If you give me loads of stuff ill do amazing things with it but I can't tell you what I'll do until you give me said stuff. Ps. You can't just give me a little bit of stuff I need all of it even though I'm not sure myself what I'm going to do with it.


Trust me because I have the same accent as you and och aye youre engaged and energised and I'm on your side and what I do with stuff will be fairer than what others have done with stuff before.

I'm not sure how there will be any more or any less stuff than there was before but trust me it will be fine

zagubov

Mistermeaner wrote: »

What a ridiculous analogy.

No need to be harsh; we know you find "apt" difficult to spell.;)

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

but you do mean borrow more (rather than paying for a 'fairer' and more equal scotland by raising taxes)?

Well that might be better discussed if independence were looking imminent. What is being discussed now re income tax raises in a few years time, (within the union is a fiscal mess) waiting to happen and the SNP know it. Swinney would do better to avoid rather than being faced with the below analysis. He should imo resist pressure from other parties, commentary and the media rubbing their hands in glee trying to goad him into raising taxes just to 'look good' to folks like Hamish ( who would never vote for them anyway )..while Scotland's economy crashes and burns around him.

"Jim Cuthbert is an economist and statistician who was formerly Scottish Office Chief Statistician. Margaret Cuthbert is also an economist and statistician who among other things lectured in econometrics at Glasgow University."

They also concluded that there was no satisfactory solution to what has become known as the gearing problem. It is argued that if the UK Government funded an income tax cut by reducing services in reserved areas such as defence, Holyrood would effectively be forced into similar cuts to protect the Scottish economy.

However, the cut would have a disproportionate impact on Scotland, as Holyrood would be forced to make spending reductions in the limited areas it controls, such as education and health, which would not necessarily have been affected south of the border.

The report concludes: "Any Scottish Government will actually be severely constrained in its freedom of action - and will also have to spend a lot of its policy effort acting in a reactive, rather than pro-active, mode. The constraints arise because, in practice, it will not be able to change rates of income tax in Scotland too much from those in the rest of the UK: because it is being handed a single tool to manage multiple problems: and because it has limited economic powers to attempt to grow the economy and the tax base.


"The perversity of the way the Smith reforms are being implemented means that Scotland could well find itself in a position rather like Greece - locked into a cycle of relative decline within a malfunctioning monetary union."

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13215332.Economists_warn_that_Smith_proposals_would_leave_Scotland_in/

Shakethedisease

Mistermeaner wrote: »

If you give me loads of stuff ill do amazing things with it but I can't tell you what I'll do until you give me said stuff. Ps. You can't just give me a little bit of stuff I need all of it even though I'm not sure myself what I'm going to do with it.


Trust me because I have the same accent as you and och aye youre engaged and energised and I'm on your side and what I do with stuff will be fairer than what others have done with stuff before.

I'm not sure how there will be any more or any less stuff than there was before but trust me it will be fine

I think you've mistaken Nicola Sturgeon for Kezia Dugdale...

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Well that might be better discussed if independence were looking imminent. What is being discussed now re income tax raises in a few years time, (within the union is a fiscal mess) waiting to happen and the SNP know it. Swinney would do better to avoid rather than being faced with the below analysis. He should imo resist pressure from other parties, commentary and the media rubbing their hands in glee trying to goad him into raising taxes just to 'look good' to folks like Hamish ( who would never vote for them anyway )..while Scotland's economy crashes and burns around him.

"Jim Cuthbert is an economist and statistician who was formerly Scottish Office Chief Statistician. Margaret Cuthbert is also an economist and statistician who among other things lectured in econometrics at Glasgow University."http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13215332.Economists_warn_that_Smith_proposals_would_leave_Scotland_in/

the total UK spend is in fact continuing to rise and it is projected to continue to do so

so whether the SNP statistician is surmising, it isn't the actual situation.


anyway we both agree the SNP should continue to mislead the scottish people and concentrate on may16 and the tactic for engineering another referendum

Mistermeaner

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Jim Cuthbert is an economist and statistician who was formerly Scottish Office Chief Statistician. Margaret Cuthbert is also an economist and statistician

Do they have 2.4 children?

skintmacflint

To be honest I'm not sure Sturgeons's problem is pressure from political parties on the new tax powers, but the jam tomorrow voters SNP has gathered from some of the long established Labour strongholds.

History shows they can sometimes not be overly understanding or generous if they feel they've been let down. Even if the reasons for it are out with a governments control.

But surely SNP must introduce the 50p tax rate increase in their manifesto at the very least. Whether they want to or not, now that it won't be implemented across the entire UK.

Shakethedisease

skintmacflint wrote: »

To be honest I'm not sure Sturgeons's problem is pressure from political parties on the new tax powers, but the jam tomorrow voters SNP has gathered from some of the long established Labour strongholds.

History shows they can sometimes not be overly understanding or generous if they feel they've been let down. Even if the reasons for it are out with a governments control.

But surely SNP must introduce the 50p tax rate increase in their manifesto at the very least. Whether they want to or not, now that it won't be implemented across the entire UK.

I guess that depends on the sums. It's a distinct possibility, but something again which needs to be used in tandem with other means of raising the tax base. As Kezia admitted 3 days ago...

Is the 50p tax rate going to be in her manifesto?

“The 50p tax is absolutely going to be in our manifesto.”

How much will that bring?

“Up to £100 million. But bluntly, Mandy, it could also raise zero because of the mechanisms by which people can avoid paying tax so it is up to £100 million"

https://www.holyrood.com/articles/inside-politics/kezia-dugdale-her-approach-leadership

The IFS says it would be less that 8.4 million based on projections of just 100 million UK wide ( in January 2014 I don't know if they've revised things since then ). But at least Kezia was honest that it might raise 0. I doubt the press will have any such scruples with the headline grabbing.

http://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/7066