Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

The plain truth of the matter is that not being in control of all layers of tax/spending and borrowing means any devolved government is severely limited in what it can and cannot do.. There are always lots of cries on threads like these to how the SNP are 'blaming Westminster'. These days it's completely normalised in Scotland that when the Tories/Tories/Libdems implement an unpopular policy, instead of opposing... the other parties and most of the media in Scotland and elsewhere turn round and say 'Well what are the SNP going to do about it then ?'.... The income tax issue is a prime example.

The devil is always in the detail.

http://lallandspeatworrier.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/kezia-dugdale-doctoring-with-cudgel.html

So, not quite so straightforward as the SNP or any Scottish Labour Govt 'just raising income taxes' after all. And whatever you think of John Swinney. He's been completely upfront and 'transparent' that there's no hope of an SNP Govt being able to reverse tax credit cuts through income tax. On the face of it, and given the complexity and the legalities, he's probably right about that.

the plain truth is the SNP will never do much because they know the scottish people won't accept higher taxes unless of course paid by the english

anyway, you need a quite new referendum

Shakethedisease

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Nonsense.

You are only arguing for the dishonest and disingenuous continuation of political parties of all persuasions building an us and them mentality and taxing through stealth.

WE pay for 100% of ALL taxes.

It makes absolutely no difference at all who politicians lie about imposing them on, it is only ever the consumers of good and services that pay, in other words it is you and me that pay all taxes.

Stop indulging the political elites and being their mindless pawn by pretending that it is anything other or that any government can tax anyone other than the ordinary working man or woman.

The myth that tax rises can be paid by business or the wealthy and not be passed on to ordinary people is a lie and a fantasy.

No-one knows what's going to be the case when Holyrood gain any sort of viable income tax raising powers. And for all your bluster, there seems to be a fair amount of people of the opinion that the SNP should raise taxes from next year across all bands... even when there's a debate to be had over if this would disproportionately hit the lower bands.

For what though ? To 'make up' for Conservative policies and how they'll impact the low paid ? Or have you any other reasons why this is a 'must do' asap for the Scottish devolved government ? Because the only thing I ever hear is that the SNP should raise income tax to somehow 'prove' their 'leftie' credentials. Nothing much beyond that.

For me, I'm also a great believer in being 'transparent' and imo it's far better to be upfront and honest about what the Scottish Govt can and cannot do. Than to keep feeding the media/cross party narrative that things well outwith the Scottish Govt's power, legality and remit, are somehow now the Scottish Govt's responsibility to deal with...simply because it happens to be the SNP in charge and it's an easy blame game.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

No-one knows what's going to be the case when Holyrood gain any sort of viable income tax raising powers. And for all your bluster, there seems to be a fair amount of people of the opinion that the SNP should raise taxes from next year across all bands... even when there's a debate to be had over if this would disproportionately hit the lower bands.

For what though ? To 'make up' for Conservative policies and how they'll impact the low paid ? Or have you any other reasons why this is a 'must do' asap for the Scottish devolved government ? Because the only thing I ever hear is that the SNP should raise income tax to somehow 'prove' their 'leftie' credentials. Nothing much beyond that.

For me, I'm also a great believer in being 'transparent' and imo it's far better to be upfront and honest about what the Scottish Govt can and cannot do. Than to keep feeding the media/cross party narrative that things well outwith the Scottish Govt's power, legality and remit, are somehow now the Scottish Govt's responsibility to deal with...simply because it happens to be the SNP in charge and it's an easy blame game.

if you want a higher level of benefits that will cost scotland whether you are part of the UK or devolved or whatever.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Shakethedisease wrote: »

No-one knows what's going to be the case when Holyrood gain any sort of viable income tax raising powers. And for all your bluster, there seems to be a fair amount of people of the opinion that the SNP should raise taxes from next year across all bands... even when there's a debate to be had over if this would disproportionately hit the lower bands.

For what though ? To 'make up' for Conservative policies and how they'll impact the low paid ? Or have you any other reasons why this is a 'must do' asap for the Scottish devolved government ? Because the only thing I ever hear is that the SNP should raise income tax to somehow 'prove' their 'leftie' credentials. Nothing much beyond that.

For me, I'm also a great believer in being 'transparent' and imo it's far better to be upfront and honest about what the Scottish Govt can and cannot do. Than to keep feeding the media/cross party narrative that things well outwith the Scottish Govt's power, legality and remit, are somehow now the Scottish Govt's responsibility to deal with...simply because it happens to be the SNP in charge and it's an easy blame game.

Och away Shakey, you still persist in seeing this through partisan political SNP & Indy blinkers, while those of us that understand the economic reality ALL governments have to face see right through you.

That game is over dearie....

Scotland is getting the powers to tax and spend as it want to.

Now it's time for the Scottish people to pay the piper.

If you want higher benefits then pay for them with higher taxes.

If you want more services then pay for them with higher taxes.

There is no "us and them" with tax rises, that's a con trick played by career politicians and the political elites, a con trick the SNP acolytes seem happy to continue.

YOU and ME will pay for 100% of all tax increases.

Ordinary people.

No matter how many lies the political classes want to try on.

If you want to tax more then for the love of God be honest enough to do it through income taxes instead of stealth taxes.

baldelectrician

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

That game is over dearie....

Scotland is getting the powers to tax and spend as it want to.
Woo-hoo- 15% of welfare is to be controlled in Scotland *
Now it's time for the Scottish people to pay the piper.

If you want higher benefits then pay for them with higher taxes.
woo-hoo 25% of taxation to be controlled in Scotland*

If you want more services then pay for them with higher taxes.

There is no "us and them" with tax rises, that's a con trick played by career politicians and the political elites, a con trick the SNP acolytes seem happy to continue.
Not an 'us and them' but a Control (Westminster 75% and Holyrood 25%)
YOU and ME will pay for 100% of all tax increases.

Ordinary people.

No matter how many lies the political classes want to try on.

If you want to tax more then for the love of God be honest enough to do it through income taxes instead of stealth taxes.

* at some time in the future yet to be determined (but apparently the 'vow' has been delivered) :rotfl:


Add to this the fact that Westminster can over rule any policy that is devolved which WM doesn't like and we have a recipe for more mud slinging.

Mistermeaner

Still don't get why snp is not using powers it has.

If they were being used to the max but we're not enough to deliver the utopia then moan.

zagubov

Mistermeaner wrote: »

Still don't get why snp is not using powers it has.

If they were being used to the max but we're not enough to deliver the utopia then moan.

You wouldn't go flying in plane with one wing, or parachuting with half a parachute.

Generali

The fact is that the SNP Government has already used its tax varying powers so it is ridiculous to suggest tthat it can't do so as it already has!

Shakethedisease

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Och away Shakey, you still persist in seeing this through partisan political SNP & Indy blinkers, while those of us that understand the economic reality ALL governments have to face see right through you.

That game is over dearie....

Scotland is getting the powers to tax and spend as it want to.

Now it's time for the Scottish people to pay the piper.

If you want higher benefits then pay for them with higher taxes.

If you want more services then pay for them with higher taxes.

There is no "us and them" with tax rises, that's a con trick played by career politicians and the political elites, a con trick the SNP acolytes seem happy to continue.

YOU and ME will pay for 100% of all tax increases.

Ordinary people.

No matter how many lies the political classes want to try on.

If you want to tax more then for the love of God be honest enough to do it through income taxes instead of stealth taxes.

Total twaddle. 100% of 100 is different from 100% of 70. The levels of taxation matter. And as pointed out the Scottish Govt aren't getting to 'do what they like' and won't be fully in control. Income tax and welfare will still be mostly reserved. It's a total mess that was created a week before the referendum with the Vow and all that went with it. Everything since has been rowing back. And we know it too.

Kezia's promises of tax credits 'reversal' were debunked about 20 mins after she made them. She'll legally have to get permission from Westminster first, as the Scotland Act (as it stands) dictates.

For Labour, Scottish politics is now all about shielding ourselves from the Tory rule which they said was a price worth paying for Union.

Never a truer word said as above. This is what Scottish politics and economic policy form all the Scottish parties now boils down to. SNP it's always been. For Labour it's now evident that the Tory majority they never expected during the referendum. When they claimed victory as Labour vindication.. is now coming home to roost BIG style.

Tomorrow Scottish Labour will decide if they are for or against Trident. If they vote Yes to Trident renewal then they'll tank even further, if it's possible, in the polls. If they vote No to Trident renewal.. then it will be used as a further argument for independence, for obvious reasons. Scottish Labour not following the UK party line any more in order to keep Scottish voters happy ?

There's a lesson there somewhere for them. They should learn it. Nothing is 'over' dearie. Scottish Labour may be slipping into 'Scottish mode' rather than the unionist one which has them in a death spiral. Tomorrow will be the tipping point for them... either way.

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

The fact is that the SNP Government has already used its tax varying powers so it is ridiculous to suggest tthat it can't do so as it already has!

SNP has used income tax powers ? News to me...and just about everyone else in Scotland.