Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Generali

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Scotland has had the power to raise (or lower) income tax by up to 3 percentage points for ages.

But a recent poll showed 60% of Scots are against raising taxes if the money is to be spent on benefits.

However 52% of Scots would consider a tax rise might be worth it if the money was spent on increased services.

The problem that either Labour or the SNP will face if they try to do this is that there just isn't enough money to be raised trying to tax only the rich. You have to tax the middle earners and the poor as well if you want to make a real difference to revenue.

I actually support a much greater degree of transparency between politicians and the populace on tax and spend issues.

I'd love to see a political party go to the people of Scotland and explain things clearly - ie - if you want us to spend X on services or protecting benefits from cuts then you have to accept Y in increased tax.

An enormous range of powers and control over fiscal levers are coming shortly.

It would be a real waste to see continued grievance building excuses and inaction being blamed on Westminster, rather than the cold hard truth that there isn't a magic money tree, and Scotland is already heavily subsidised by rUK taxpayers.

I believe that I've seen it claimed on here that so far any increase in taxation would be swallowed up by an increase in costs for the Scottish Government.

AIUI, from 2016-7 the rules change so that HMRC would administer (for free) an increase in income tax for Scotland. Other taxes can be changed in this financial year and indeed Scotland has already changed SDLT.

Scotland has a massive subsidy, the ability to change taxes which is already being used and an ability to vary spending. Is the value of an independent Scotland genuinely higher than the Barnett subsidy? Do Nationalists feel that much hatred for the English that they want shot of them at any price to the poor of their country.

Leanne1812

skintmacflint wrote: »

There is a good article on a blog called Smatterings today by a Yes voter called Dan Vevers , called

'If all you care about is Independence , you're an idiot' on
http://smatterobanter.blogspot.co.uk

Hope that link works.

Came across it on it on David Torrance's Twitter feed.

Very good read skint,

I do despair at some of the stuff I read online. I really like James Cook and thought his reporting during the ref was very good but he still suffered abuse.....jk is also entitled to her views and I respect them.

I still believe everyone voted with Scotland's best interests at heart. We just have/had different opinions on what that is. I've pretty much shut down about independence. It's over and done for me anyway.

What I think most of us are doing now is just taking an active interest in what happens now, what does Scotland's future look like, what do we want it to look like. A million different things I'm sure! That's what the ref did that I find amazing. It made people take an interest in their country and its politicians and I believe we now feel we have a little tiny bit of control over our destiny by holding them all up to scrutiny and making them accountable at the ballot box.

You know I'm SNP and I will continue to be so as long as I feel they are the best party to lead Scotland. They're not perfect and I have voiced concern about some policies but the other parties will condemn when they may well have made the same choices themselves ( Police Scotland for 1) Are you willing to share who you feel might do a better job, who is credible that the people will get behind?

CLAPTON

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

To be fair to the SNP they're not actually a spend spend spend party in their entirety.

A large segment of them are Tartan Tories, ie, quite fiscally conservative and keen to be seen as business friendly.

They have had the power to raise income tax for ages and haven't done so, indeed they have also implemented a freeze on council tax for years.



Both Labour and the SNP seemingly prefer to do nothing and blame the Tories rather than explain how they'd make the hard choices with all the new powers that are coming.

That's why they keep calling vastly more powers and control over fiscal levers a 'Tory Trap'.

I agree with you here.

The SNP are a party about power and wanting independence.
The fairer more equal society is a wonderful sound bite (who could disagree?) which commits them to nothing especially as they use the English as their excuse for inaction.
Hence the interest if Labour could produce a half way realistic proposal for actual socialist spending (and taxing) to challenge the mantra that such things are impossible without independence.

Early days and I still expect a SNP clean sweep of the board in May 16 but who knows.

elantan

Ps you do realise that I was referring to unionist blogs accepting they have an issue as well ? ... don't think you'll find many separatist blogs that will say it's not two ways lol

Mistermeaner

Interesting how the pro snp posters in the last few posts entirely ignore the points just made about spending and taxes, preferring to talk about blogs and engagement.

elantan

Not really ... those things bore me now so I don't get involved in them ... as I've said several times I stopped campaigning at 10pm on September 18th 2014 ...now I like to sit back eat the popcorn and watch ... it's more fun this way ( well it is for me anyway)

elantan

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Scotland has had the power to raise (or lower) income tax by up to 3 percentage points for ages.

But a recent poll showed 60% of Scots are against raising taxes if the money is to be spent on benefits.

However 52% of Scots would consider a tax rise might be worth it if the money was spent on increased services.

The problem that either Labour or the SNP will face if they try to do this is that there just isn't enough money to be raised trying to tax only the rich. You have to tax the middle earners and the poor as well if you want to make a real difference to revenue.

I actually support a much greater degree of transparency between politicians and the populace on tax and spend issues.

I'd love to see a political party go to the people of Scotland and explain things clearly - ie - if you want us to spend X on services or protecting benefits from cuts then you have to accept Y in increased tax.

An enormous range of powers and control over fiscal levers are coming shortly.

It would be a real waste to see continued grievance building excuses and inaction being blamed on Westminster, rather than the cold hard truth that there isn't a magic money tree, and Scotland is already heavily subsidised by rUK taxpayers.

One of the rare times I agree with Hamish ... is there a blue moon outside ?

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

CLAPTON wrote: »

Labour could produce a half way realistic proposal for actual socialist spending (and taxing) to challenge the mantra that such things are impossible without independence.
.

Labour should indeed accept that this time around they'll get their ar5e handed to them on a plate and use the opportunity to present a real alternative to the SNP in social spending and tax priorities using the new powers.

It won't win them this election.

But it would set up a real discussion in Scotland as to how the extensive new powers should be used for the next 4-5 years.

Leanne1812

Mistermeaner wrote: »

Interesting how the pro snp posters in the last few posts entirely ignore the points just made about spending and taxes, preferring to talk about blogs and engagement.

It's already been discussed mister. The gov have to raise across all tax bands equally as I understand it. Does that make sense, raising the lowest earners tax? C'mon people at the bottom of the rung being taxed more, do you think that will work? Doesn't sit well with me.

Kezia makes her speech this afternoon, I'll see what she has to say and no doubt there will be a discussion to be had. Maybe she will show Labour are progressive. I won't pass judgement just yet.

Tromking

Mistermeaner wrote: »

Interesting how the pro snp posters in the last few posts entirely ignore the points just made about spending and taxes, preferring to talk about blogs and engagement.

Perhaps if talk about progressive Scots paying for progressive policies themselves rather than relying on 'the subsidy' is ignored, it'll go away!