Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Generali

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9491

The Corbyn effect in Scotland appears to be nil. May it be the same in England.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

On the Daily Politics Show there was an SNP MSP who was complaining about the Scottish Grant being reduced by same amount as the Scottish Goverment would get in taxes. (Sorry but I did not catch his name).

Is that true? Does it apply to all taxes raised over and above the UK norm?

What is the problem with it?

If Taxes are deduced from the UK norm, does the Grant goes up?

It sounds like devil, if such exists, is in the detail.

Alex Neil. Jo Coburn was going on like the toothache about why the SNP had never using the 3p in the £ tax raising powers. He correctly pointed out, and as we've already established re the posts above.. that these tax powers are basically unusable. They would cost more to Admin and collect than they would raise, and at the end of the day anything raised, simply gets chopped of the block grant anyway. Zero sum game for a lot of expense and hassles setting it all up. As said before Labour didn't bother with them either.

The only significant tax raising 'useable' tax varying powers on the horizon for Scotland are not even agreed yet. So there's little point in keeping on barracking the SNP for not 'using tax powers' is there now ? They don't exist.
I'm sure they have something planned for April. But they've already stated several times that there's not a hope in hell of being able to reverse Tax credit cuts if they come in. Not as things stand.

Labour bounce doing well...

Yougov/Times 15/10/15

Constituency ballot :
SNP 51% (n/c)
Labour 21% (-1)
Conservatives 19% (+1)
Liberal Democrats 5% (+1)

Regional list ballot :

SNP 45% (n/c)
Labour 20% (n/c)
Conservatives 19% (+1)
Greens 6% (n/c)
Liberal Democrats 5% (+1)
SSP 3% (n/c)
UKIP 3% (n/c)

Do you trust these parties to tell the truth? (net ratings): SNP -5, Labour -42, Conservatives -50, Lib Dem -56. https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/mr8k4ikbr3/TimesResults_October15_ScotlandVI,tax,parties_w.pdf …

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9491

The Corbyn effect in Scotland appears to be nil. May it be the same in England.

Great minds.. cross posted.

Generali

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Great minds.. cross posted.

Labour are highly unlikely to win the UK without at least getting a majority of Scottish seats and more likely they require a landslide there.

I suspected that it was the Labour brand that was screwed in Scotland, not that they were too right. Nothing I have seen so far disabuses me of that. I do worry about what happens in Scotland with no effective opposition. That's not the SNP's fault of course but it's a situation that rarely ends well for anyone.

Maybe the Tories ditch their Scottish party and they reform as a Unionist Party, entirely independent of the English Tories. The Tories already have a highly decentralised system and don't seem as keen on central control for the party as Labour.

.string.

Generali wrote: »

Labour are highly unlikely to win the UK without at least getting a majority of Scottish seats and more likely they require a landslide there.

I suspected that it was the Labour brand that was screwed in Scotland, not that they were too right. Nothing I have seen so far disabuses me of that. I do worry about what happens in Scotland with no effective opposition. That's not the SNP's fault of course but it's a situation that rarely ends well for anyone.

Maybe the Tories ditch their Scottish party and they reform as a Unionist Party, entirely independent of the English Tories. The Tories already have a highly decentralised system and don't seem as keen on central control for the party as Labour.

Yes I have the same concern with respect to the Tories in the UK; I want a strong opposition that I can also vote for, every party needs to get a comeuppance now and then.

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Alex Neil. Jo Coburn was going on like the toothache about why the SNP had never using the 3p in the £ tax raising powers. He correctly pointed out, and as we've already established re the posts above.. that these tax powers are basically unusable. They would cost more to Admin and collect than they would raise, and at the end of the day anything raised, simply gets chopped of the block grant anyway. Zero sum game for a lot of expense and hassles setting it all up. As said before Labour didn't bother with them either.

The only significant tax raising 'useable' tax varying powers on the horizon for Scotland are not even agreed yet. So there's little point in keeping on barracking the SNP for not 'using tax powers' is there now ? They don't exist.
I'm sure they have something planned for April. But they've already stated several times that there's not a hope in hell of being able to reverse Tax credit cuts if they come in. Not as things stand.

Labour bounce doing well...

Yougov/Times 15/10/15

You mentioned that before, but what about the specific issue mentioned in my post?

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

You mentioned that before, but what about the specific issue mentioned in my post?

Does Barnett go up or down ? How can it go up or down.. it's a formula.

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

Labour are highly unlikely to win the UK without at least getting a majority of Scottish seats and more likely they require a landslide there.

Labour won't win power ever again without England. There's border changes and EVEL in the offing too. They don't need Scotland to win. However, a good resurgence in May next year for Holyrood would bolster the troops and shine a bit of light ahead. They've got lots of time to worry about England afterwards.

I suspected that it was the Labour brand that was screwed in Scotland, not that they were too right. Nothing I have seen so far disabuses me of that. I do worry about what happens in Scotland with no effective opposition. That's not the SNP's fault of course but it's a situation that rarely ends well for anyone.

They were too rightwing in Scotland. And were staring to be viewed as such which is why their votes were declining in the Scottish elections. The referendum and 'aligning' with the Tories, and so easily too, just confirmed it and carried over to the UK elections. Labour and the other parties in Scotland only have to come up with some policies of their own. It's not rocket science. They're stuck in an 'SNP bad' loop that seems to be just, going.. on and on.... forever. It's never ending and everywhere, everyday, 24/7...... In other words, no-one takes any notice anymore. It's run of the mill stuff.

No-one, however disillusioned with the SNP will ever switch and vote Labour until they have some policies again. At the present time, dissing the SNP for absolutely everything they do isn't winning votes back. And it won't until they have something concrete to offer as an alternative. Dugdale v's Sturgeon as First Minister ? That's the choice in front of us next May. I don't think it will be a particularly difficult one to be honest.

Maybe the Tories ditch their Scottish party and they reform as a Unionist Party, entirely independent of the English Tories. The Tories already have a highly decentralised system and don't seem as keen on central control for the party as Labour.

Murdo Fraser suggested just that a few years ago. Even to the point of changing the name as he felt 'Conservatives' was too toxic in Scotland to gain traction again. But it was slapped down quick style.

elantan

Have to admit the whole #SNP BAD is a trifle boring now ... many people just turn off... Kezia made sounds to the effect of were changing no more just #SNP BAD then went on her #SNP BAD ... I do wonder if she is even aware of it tbh

I used to respect Ruth Davidson and thought she would make good opposition ( even though I can't stand the Tory ideology) but I've noticed recently the mask is slipping and her Tory roots shining through, I think then sadly we are left with the Greens to be decent opposition ... I say sadly not in the sense that I don't like the Greens I do like them ... just there will not be enough of them ... I think the Greens under Patrick Harvey ( not so much Maggie Chapman) would give the SNP some good opposition

elantan

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Labour won't win power ever again without England. There's border changes and EVEL in the offing too. They don't need Scotland to win. However, a good resurgence in May next year for Holyrood would bolster the troops and shine a bit of light ahead. They've got lots of time to worry about England afterwards.

They were too rightwing in Scotland. And were staring to be viewed as such which is why their votes were declining in the Scottish elections. The referendum and 'aligning' with the Tories, and so easily too, just confirmed it and carried over to the UK elections. Labour and the other parties in Scotland only have to come up with some policies of their own. It's not rocket science. They're stuck in an 'SNP bad' loop that seems to be just, going.. on and on.... forever. It's never ending and everywhere, everyday, 24/7...... In other words, no-one takes any notice anymore. It's run of the mill stuff.

No-one, however disillusioned with the SNP will ever switch and vote Labour until they have some policies again. At the present time, dissing the SNP for absolutely everything they do isn't winning votes back. And it won't until they have something concrete to offer as an alternative. Dugdale v's Sturgeon as First Minister ? That's the choice in front of us next May. I don't think it will be a particularly difficult one to be honest.

Murdo Fraser suggested just that a few years ago. Even to the point of changing the name as he felt 'Conservatives' was too toxic in Scotland to gain traction again. But it was slapped down quick style.

My son ( who wanted Devo max, voted Yes) quite likes Murdo Fraser, he wishes he was the Tory leader here ... he also states he believes once we have independence and he no longer needs to vote SNP he will vote Tory as that's where his heart lies ( I'm confused as to how I feel about this ... both shame and pride would be best descriptions lol)