Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Shakethedisease

ruggedtoast wrote: »

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/neil-findlay/jeremy-corbyn_b_8140628.html?utm_hp_ref=uk&ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067

Neil Findlay ? That's like Stuart Hosie or John Swinney being asked if they consider Scottish Labour a serious threat. There was only ever going to be one way of seeing a Corbyn victory for Mr ( Left-wing of Labour to my bones ) Findlay. Though I quite like him too.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

Today the SNP reintroduced their claim that the "VOW" had not been kept, citing things that were not in the vow.

Cameron asked Robinson to give him a list of specific things that were missing from the Vow.

From experience on this thread, he won't get an answer; I've tried a couple of times to no avail. All he can expect is more whinge-blather and no substance.

Aah no. That would be Gordon Brown and the cross party Devolution Committee Perhaps you selectively misheard Angus Robertson quoting Mr Brown ? The Devolution Committee released a statement yesterday.

I do hope Angus takes him at his word and reels off the list the Devolution Committee provide him with in their official full report due in a few days time. You and Mr Cameron will find your 'answers' there string. Labour are already u-turning on VAT being now fully devolved.

Shakethedisease

Here you go string..this is just regarding Smith Commission proposals which are currently falling short of what was agreed according to all Scottish parties on the Devolution committee.

Clause 1 – permanency of the Scottish Parliament and Scottish Government
Clause 2 – Sewel Convention
Clause 11 –Scope to modify the Scotland Act
Clause 15 –assignment of VAT
Borrowing
Clause 19 - Disability, industrial injuries and carer’s benefits
Clause 21 -Discretionary payments: top up of reserved benefits
Clause 23 – New benefits in devolved areas
Clause 22 –discretionary housing payments
Clause 23 -Winter fuel payments
Clause 26 –Employment support
‘Consent provisions’ in the welfare clauses
Clause 31 –Crown Estate
Clause 33 -Tribunals
Payday loan shops
Clause 45 -Gaming machines on licensed betting premises
Gender quotas
Inter-governmental relations (IGR)
Other provisions

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/S4_ScotlandBillCommittee/General%20Documents/20150915LettertoSecofStateonAmendmentsatReportStage.pdf

And then there's this too..

YouGov poll has found that only 9% of respondents believe that “the Vow” – signed by the UK Tory, Labour and Lib Dem leaders on 16th September last year - has been ‘delivered completely’.

YouGov poll sampled between 7th - 10th September 2015; sample 1110.
Before the referendum on Scottish independence the Labour party, Conservative party and Liberal Democrats vowed to give increased powers to the Scottish government if the Scottish people voted NO. To what extent, if at all, do you think they have delivered on this vow?

All

Delivered completely
9%
Delivered partly
26%
Delivered very little
30%
Have not delivered at all
22%
Don't know
12%


TOTAL: Delivered very little/not at all
52%

Think it's safe to say that never mind the SNP, but only 9% of Scots voters think the Vow has been delivered in full. Can we put this to bed now ?

Rinoa

Just for Shakey, here's Alex Salmonds 'Victory' speech:

"In the early hours of this morning, Scotland voted Yes. We are a nation reborn.
"The community of this realm has spoken. Scotland shall be independent once again. To those who voted No, I extend an immediate hand of friendship.
"I do so with respect for our difference, with admiration for the passion and principle of an opposing view strongly held, and with the recognition that the joy of the majority be tempered by the disappointment of the minority.
"We are One nation. One Scotland. Let us shape the future together.
New politics

"This campaign reclaimed from politicians and parties the monopoly of power and decision-making.
"This must be the start of new politics - a time when the voices of the many will be heard.
"A time when the dispossessed and the forgotten assert their rights as citizens. A time of empowerment and participation.
"To our friends and families across these isles waking to our new democracy, we say this; know that, in Scotland, you will always have your closest friend, greatest ally and most steadfast partner.
"Independence is about equality and mutual respect. Those principles will define our new and unbreakable relationship.
Smooth the transition

"I have just spoken with the Prime Minister.
"This morning, we renewed our joint commitment under the Edinburgh Agreement to work constructively and positively to implement the will of the people. That work starts immediately.
"It is, however, important that the people of Scotland remember this; today, tomorrow and for the next 18 months our lives, businesses, shops, schools and hospitals continue exactly as before.
"The dialogue to resolve any differences with the Westminster government will continue in that period, and will smooth the transition to independence.
"Finally, I know that the eyes of the world are today on Scotland.
"We will use the unprecedented attention to make clear that Scotland fully intends to be a constructive and progressive member of the international community.
Greatest day

"Our friends in Europe should understand with total clarity that Scotland's future lies as a fully-engaged participant in the European Union.
"Our path is towards inclusion and co-operation, not isolation.
"But those matters are for another day.
"This morning, I want every person, Yes voters, No voters, everyone in this proud and ancient nation to pause, reflect upon and remember this greatest day in Scotland's history.
"We did this. We made it happen. We believed. We trusted ourselves and trusted each other.
"A country reborn. A democracy reclaimed. We reach towards the future.
"What we have done this day will inspire and empower not just this generation but the many yet unborn.
"They will learn of this momentous day and thank you for investing your trust in each other. And in them."

But you voted no. Let that be the end of it.

.string.

So a long list of grievances, Shakey, on arguable points, but the question was what parts of the Vow were not being kept, not what else the SNP wants.

The SNP signed up to the Smith Commision report and immediately complained it was not acceptable to them. You can't have it both ways.

Robinson also complained that none of the SNP amendments had been accepted. Of course not, they were clearly tailored to be disagreeable of course.

elantan

Yep I reckon Fabiani and Swinnerton have a lot to answer for , and I like them

Shakethedisease

Rinoa wrote: »

Just for Shakey, here's Alex Salmonds 'Victory' speech:
But you voted no. Let that be the end of it.

I read it this morning. Next time it should sound far more triumphalist I think. Since that one was only the rehearsal.

*I'm bantering btw. Just in case someone has a fit of the vapours..

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

So a long list of grievances, Shakey, on arguable points, but the question was what parts of the Vow were not being kept, not what else the SNP wants.

The SNP signed up to the Smith Commision report and immediately complained it was not acceptable to them. You can't have it both ways.

Robinson also complained that none of the SNP amendments had been accepted. Of course not, they were clearly tailored to be disagreeable of course.

Well, the Devolution Committee isn't the SNP. So until you educate yourself to who they are, and what they do. There's little point going any further with this.

And the MP in question, his name is Robertson. The Vow/Gordon Brown promised more than Smith delivered. The Devolution Committee, and Gordon Brown are saying that not even Smith is being delivered. There's no real need to keep splitting hairs is there ?

Shakethedisease

elantan wrote: »

Yep I reckon Fabiani and Swinnerton have a lot to answer for , and I like them

You don't get anything by not showing up at the debating table. Something Salmond, rather than Sillars/Gordon Wilson, learnt well from SNP mistakes in the past.

Salmond caused a big fuss within the SNP by campaigning wholeheartedly for devolution in the 1997 ref, rather than sneerily dismissing doing so in favour of an 'independence or nothing' for the SNP approach. Lesson learnt.

elantan

They got nothing of note anyway, but a big stick with which to be beaten